Home Page › Forums › Prototype and Historical › MP/T&P Memorabilia › Missouri Pacific Caps and Badges – Originals and Fakes
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July 26, 2015 at 4:35 am #5421benjamintickell53Participant
Several bogus MP conductor caps have surfaced recently, such as this example from ebay. Legitimate MP passenger uniform caps are likely to have three known badge types. The most recent (ca. 1930s to 1971) incorporates a Missouri Pacific Lines buzzsaw in red enamel centered as part of the badge. An earlier version had a much smaller Missouri Pacific enamel buzzsaw on each end of the badge type (conductor, trainman, etc.) An even earlier badge was a flat silvered rectangle with oval openings at each end to allow it to be secured to a hat with an elastic band.
[attachment=3:1iijcvqk]fake MP conductor cap.JPG[/attachment:1iijcvqk]
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[attachment=1:1iijcvqk]MP-Baggageman-badge.jpg[/attachment:1iijcvqk]
[attachment=0:1iijcvqk]conductor-MP.jpg[/attachment:1iijcvqk]July 26, 2015 at 12:33 pm #6891peggyrothschildParticipantBill
I saw the bogus conductor’s cap on eBay too. They’ve listed it twice as no ones bid on it (which is good to see). I did send the seller an email advising this was a fake and they should look at the completed auctions to see an original. We’ll see if they remove the listing. The seller changed the title and lowered the price to $50 after I contacted him.On your last photo of the conductor’s badge I always thought these simple metal badged were made for freight service. I have two photos of trainmen wearing their everyday caps or hats with this type of badge attached.
I’d like to start another topic on ‘real’ cap badges and we keep the fakes in a seperate topic for future searches or we could just re title this one “Cap badges – Originals and Fakes”. I have a few I’ll be glad to add to this next week just let me know what you prefer.
July 26, 2015 at 6:18 pm #6894mopacKeymasterHere are some pictures of my Grandfathers Agent’s Cap that he wore for many years. He was Ticket and Freight Agent at Flippin, Arkansas from August 25, 1925 until he retired on May 5, 1953. Not sure how long he had this cap but I know he wore it until he retired. You can see the very nice badge on the front of the cap that reads AGENT and has the red buzz saw just above it.
July 26, 2015 at 6:18 pm #6896mopacKeymasterHere are some pictures of my Grandfathers Agent’s Cap that he wore for many years. He was Ticket and Freight Agent at Flippin, Arkansas from August 25, 1925 until he retired on May 5, 1953. Not sure how long he had this cap but I know he wore it until he retired. You can see the very nice badge on the front of the cap that reads AGENT and has the red buzz saw just above it.
July 28, 2015 at 4:51 am #6904benjamintickell53ParticipantCharlie,
Your thought about a separate thread for MP badges (originals) is a good idea. With regard to the silver slotted badges, I am sure that they were used in freight service, but I had always assumed that they were also used in passenger service in the early years before the enameled badges became standard. Have you seen any “true” passenger crewman badges from the pre-1915 era?July 28, 2015 at 6:57 pm #6910peggyrothschildParticipantHere’s a Porter’s summer cap and badge with silver trim.
[attachment=3:3ggovz52]Porter1.JPG[/attachment:3ggovz52]
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[attachment=1:3ggovz52]Porter3.JPG[/attachment:3ggovz52]
[attachment=0:3ggovz52]Porter4.JPG[/attachment:3ggovz52]July 28, 2015 at 7:01 pm #6911peggyrothschildParticipantMPL conductor cap with gold trim. I have the complete uniform to go with it.
[attachment=2:2wclltgo]Conductor1.JPG[/attachment:2wclltgo][attachment=1:2wclltgo]Conductor2.JPG[/attachment:2wclltgo][attachment=0:2wclltgo]Conductor3.JPG[/attachment:2wclltgo]
July 28, 2015 at 7:04 pm #6912peggyrothschildParticipantMPL Trainman cap with silver trim., silver colored buttons and silver colored badge. I asked Norbert Shacklett, retired MP agent operator and conductor, the difference between the gold and silver trimmed Trainman caps and he said when he was issued his Trainman cap by the Trainmaster’s secretary Mr. Nichols in Jefferson City he was told that’s “Just how they came from the manufacturer” so there’s no difference although the Circular 4 notes that the Trainman was in silver.
[attachment=2:3pebprym]trainman-silver1.JPG[/attachment:3pebprym][attachment=1:3pebprym]trainman-silver2.JPG[/attachment:3pebprym][attachment=0:3pebprym]trainman-silver3.JPG[/attachment:3pebprym]
July 28, 2015 at 7:07 pm #6913peggyrothschildParticipantMPL Trainman with gold trim, gold colored buttons and bronze colored badge.
[attachment=2:3ngvgbqz]trainman-gold1.JPG[/attachment:3ngvgbqz][attachment=1:3ngvgbqz]trainman-gold2.JPG[/attachment:3ngvgbqz][attachment=0:3ngvgbqz]trainman-gold3.JPG[/attachment:3ngvgbqz]July 28, 2015 at 7:10 pm #6914peggyrothschildParticipantMPL Gateman summer cap – note the lack of trim but with silver buttons and silver badge. These jobs were used to flag a crossing and were usually held by a maintenance of way worker that was injured or on light duty.
[attachment=2:1aci4w2g]Gateman1.JPG[/attachment:1aci4w2g][attachment=1:1aci4w2g]Gateman2.JPG[/attachment:1aci4w2g][attachment=0:1aci4w2g]Gateman4.JPG[/attachment:1aci4w2g]
July 28, 2015 at 7:16 pm #6915peggyrothschildParticipantI was given this cap by Mike Adams (dec) a retired Mopac employee and Mopac historian. He said it was used by an Iron Mountain agent in the 1900’s. There’s no railroad markings or buttons so I am going on Mike’s input as to its origin. The caps is pretty fragile as its partly made from silk.
[attachment=2:3caz1q4y]OldAgent1.JPG[/attachment:3caz1q4y][attachment=1:3caz1q4y]OldAgent2.JPG[/attachment:3caz1q4y][attachment=0:3caz1q4y]OldAgent3.JPG[/attachment:3caz1q4y]July 28, 2015 at 7:21 pm #6916peggyrothschildParticipantThis cap was worn in the 1950’s and 1960’s by the Mopac passenger agent (Roger Basler) at St. Louis’ Union Station. After the Mopac got out of the passenger business In 1971 with Amtrak coming on the scene Roger was relocated to the Mopac’s General Offices at 13th and Olive and was assigned to arranged airline tickets for those employees traveling for business by air. You’d call Roger tell him where you were going and when and he’d deliver your tickets over the next few days.
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July 28, 2015 at 7:25 pm #6917peggyrothschildParticipantIron Mountain cap badges for a conductor and brakeman
[attachment=0:1p3r5rml]IMconductor.JPG[/attachment:1p3r5rml][attachment=1:1p3r5rml]IMbrakeman.JPG[/attachment:1p3r5rml]July 29, 2015 at 2:04 am #6922benjamintickell53ParticipantDid the Gateman badges also come in gold? I was told that the Gateman badges were also used by those who opened the midway gates and directed passengers to trains at places like Little Rock and Texarkana.
July 29, 2015 at 12:20 pm #6928peggyrothschildParticipantBill
Apparently not, here’s what Circular 4 dated 1/1/1950 (Specifications governing uniforms) shows for the cap badges.
Gilding Base Metal – Gold plated
Conductor, Station Master, Agent and Baggage Agent
White metal base – Silver plated
Trainman, Baggageman, Porter and GatemanThis circular canceled Circular 4-D dated 1/1/1935.
Also here’s the list of badges the MPL used. I received this 15-20 years ago from a collector that included the Die numbers.
Auditor, Baggage Agent, Gateman, Stationmaster, News Service, Baggageman, Agent, Trainman, Conductor, Parlor-Porter and Porter. I assume badges not listed in the 1950 circular were discontinued (auditor, news service,and parlor-porter).There were three more dies listed just to complete this die listing; Missouri Pacific Transportation Company, Missouri Pacific Lines, Missouri Pacific Lines Booster Club and Missouri Pacific Lines round die three versions.
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