Earlier thread from Yahoo Mopac group, June 2012

I have seen references that show the MP 5BR-lounge cars being utilized by the B&O between St. Louis and Washington DC on the National Limited. I have also seen pics
of the cars being used on the CB&Q’s Twin Zephyrs. What role they served on
the Twin Zephyrs is unknown to me.
Mike Cafferata

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Not sure what this is on the rear of a GM&O train to Chicago,
http://www.railarchive.net/gmogallery/photo007.htm
Great images by Dr. Leonard’s GMO&O site. Has two or three with Mopac equipment, (baggage on head end).
Dan

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That’s a 14-4, or a 14-1-2, aisle side. I think the aisle sides of these two groups of sleepers were identical.
Ron Merrick

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Its a little unusual to have a MP sleeper on the back of GM&O #4, as shown in the photo link referenced below. In 1957, a 10-6 operated Houston-St. Louis-Chicago and a 14-1-2 operated Ft. Worth-St Louis-Chicago, both supposed to have been carried in GM&O #2 north of St. Louis. On the date #4 was photographed, the west Texas Eagle apparently was sufficiently late into St. Louis that a decision was made to not hold GM&O #2 and instead forward the Ft. Worth sleeper on #4.

With regard to other usage of the T&P 5BR cars… Eagle Ridge was placed in Chicago-Florida service on the Dixie Flagler, operating approximately mid-December 1950 through mid-May 1951, with no exterior repainting.

When these 5BR-lounge cars were used on the B&O, was that after the time that regular usage had ended on the Texas Eagle?

Four surplus T&P 14-4 cars were also placed in the general Pullman pool in October 1949, Eagle Call, Eagle Spirit, Eagle Trail and Eagle Watch. These four cars were repainted Pullman two-tone gray with Pullman letterboards and assigned to extra service on Union Pacific. Two of the cars, Eagle Trail and Eagle Watch, were returned to T&P in November 1950 after being restored to Eagle colors.

Hopefully others can provide additional usage data for these cars as they traveled off line.
Bill Pollard

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I was able to do a bit of digging and found references to both the B&O
assignments and the Twin Zephyr assignments in the TRRA publication #63
“Pullmans to St. Louis”.

On page 24, it is stated that one car was assigned to Ft. Worth-El Paso
until 7/11/1961. While not stated, that hints that the other two cars
remained in St. Louis-Ft. Worth service around that time. Also on page 24,
the article indicates that the 3 cars were assigned to B&O for National
Limited service from 12/1/1962 to 4/23/1963 and again from 5/8/1963 to
4/26/1964. One car, “Eagle Ridge”, was converted to an RPO in 1966 and
the other two cars were retired and sold in 1966.

Page 26 of the same issue references the assignment of the cars to the
Burlington’s Morning and Afternoon Twin Zephyrs. On page 34 of Michael
Spoor’s “CB&Q Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment” a photo of a
MP car is shown in the consist of one of the Twin Zephyrs in July 1964.
Based on the window configuration, it appears to be one of the cars in
question. I have seen other photos but cannot find them at this time.

I will pose a question to the CB&Q group to see if anyone knows the
assignment dates of the cars and what they were used for.
Mike Cafferata

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Mike,

Thanks for locating that reference. I recalled reading of the B&O usage but could not locate the source.

I interpret the TRRA-HS mention of the Ft. Worth-El Paso assignment of the single car to be a brief operation. It would have required a second car from somewhere to fill out the other side of the assignment, since two cars would have been required for daily operation.

Pullman line 3708 was the assignment for the 5BR-lounge cars, initially operating St. Louis-El Paso beginning August 14, 1948, then cut back to St. Louis-Ft. Worth on October 31, 1948.

There was a brief period in 1952, 1953 and 1956 when the line operated only every other day account “shopping”, which suggests that the 3rd car was unavailable for use during that time. Line 3708, still St. Louis-Fort Worth, was discontinued July 11, 1961.
Bill Pollard

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In case this has been missed by others, the MP/T&P 5-B-L was used on the B&O Detroit – Wash,DC… see Dubin’s book on Pullman livery cover.
Alah Hegler

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