abs signaling questions help

[John Diamond]

Hello everyone. I am commencing construction on a layout based on the Kc to Pueblo line set late 70s to early 80s. Looking at Eads or Horace since both had a train order office. If the signal right at the depot was in the “on” position to get a set of orders what indication would the last signal coming up to the depot be? Would they be interlocked so to speak? in the stretch between Scott City and Na jct were any of the mainline siding switches directly controlled by the dispatcher or were they all just hand throw with a electric lock box? Using Eads as an example, if you were trackside looking at the signal just past the east switch and no train for miles on end either direction what would you see for a indication looking at it from both a eatbound and westbound direction or would it even be lit up unless the east or west switch was open or a train was within a certain number of blocks of it? Trying to make sure I have a clear picture of how the whole ABS and train order system worked back then. I am an engineer with the BNSF but have only ran on CTC or TWC only territory. Doing this layout partly as a tribute to my Uncles Jim and Ray Diamond who hired on with the MP and retired from the UP and have both passed. Don’t think they ever worked that far west but I have always liked the wide open plains of Western Ks/ Eastern Co so that’s why I’m making that my locale to model. As an aside I plan on attending all 3 days of this years convention.

[Ted Ferkenhoff]

Hi John,

Sorry for the delay in response, I am slowly getting caught up with the Forum.

If the signal right at the depot was in the “on” position to get a set of orders what indication would the last signal coming up to the depot be? Would they be interlocked so to speak?

The train order signal was completely separate from the block signalling system. Block signal indications would not give train crews any information regarding the train order signal indication.

in the stretch between Scott City and Na Jct were any of the mainline siding switches directly controlled by the dispatcher or were they all just hand throw with a electric lock box?

In that section, it was all ABS signaling so nothing was controlled by the dispatcher. Siding switches were hand-throw.

Using Eads as an example, if you were trackside looking at the signal just past the east switch and no train for miles on end either direction what would you see for a indication looking at it from both a eastbound and westbound direction or would it even be lit up unless the east or west switch was open or a train was within a certain number of blocks of it?

If “no train for miles” meant no trains within 3 signal blocks either side of the signals being observed, signals in both directions would be green. I do not know if signals on this line were ever converted to being approach-lit, where they would not light up until a train was in an adjacent block.

Ted Ferkenhoff

[John Diamond]

Hi Ted. Thanks for the answers to my questions. So would it be a given that at crew change points like Horace you would always receive a set of train orders when going on duty? I would guess yes? John.

[Ted Ferkenhoff]

Yes, train orders with a clearance card were the authority to occupy the main track. Automatic block signals are a safety overlay, and do not convey authority.

[Author]

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