Missouri Pacific diesel questions

[robthathaway43]

I was wondering when MoPac started repainting their diesel engines into Jenks blue and what was the longest one survived in the old Eagle paint scheme? Also, where is the bell located on a GP7, GP9, and GP18?
Thank you in advance, Luke Welte

[princessclyne69]

Here are top-of-the-head answers to some of your questions. I believe that the dates when the repainting and renumbering started is well documented, but approximately May 1961. Renumbering of locomotives took perhaps three months to finish. The use of solid blue (Jenks blue, although he didn’t call it that) began at very close to the same time, perhaps a few weeks earlier than the beginning of renumbering. So there were a small number of locomotives that were repainted first, while still carrying their old numbers. Several of those have been documented. The opposite case, where almost the entire locomotive fleet was renumbered but many or most locomotives still carried their old paint, went on from 1961 until 1965 with a dwindling number of, probably ratty-looking, engines toward the end of that period. I do not know if it has been documented for sure which were the last engines not to have been repainted. It’s entirely possible that some of the switch engines, which were solid black, could have been among the last ones still working in old paint.

Bear in mind that starting around 1957, after the consolidation of major subsidiaries, a number of older F units were repainted in basically the Eagle scheme but with only the words MISSOURI PACIFIC, without LINES, on the sides. These units also received a smaller nose herald and a few other changes. I am not aware of any early Geeps being repainted in this manner, but new Geeps after this period (the GP18s) were lettered without the word LINES. This was also true of at least one group of passenger cars, the ten economy baggage cars as well as the one Slumbercoach leased to MP.

There are preserved company documents for the renumbering of locomotives, for passenger cars, and for freight cars. The passenger car renumbering was carried out on roughly the same timeframe as the locomotive renumbering. The freight car renumbering did not begin until 1965, although several series of new freight cars were delivered earlier with numbering in the new scheme.

As for the bell locations, the bell isn’t shown on most locomotive diagrams but I believe all the GP7 and GP9 locomotives had the bell in the normal manufacturer’s standard position, which was under the frame just behind the front truck, on the left side (fireman’s side) I believe. Some GP18s had this also, but the 400 series and many of the 500s had the bell on top of the hood, on the left side behind the cab.

Hope this helps.

RG7

[robthathaway43]

Thank you mopacfirst that was a very quick response! I know have two more questions.
First could post some pictures that show where the bell was because I am having a terrible time finding some. Second what type of horn was used on the GP7s-GP18s? I know some were single chimes but what brand and were there any Nathan or Leslie horns used? I am asking these questions because I am super-detailing some Proto 2000 engines and put sound decoders in them.
Thank you again in advance,
Luke Welte

[princessclyne69]

The early GP18s (1961 numbers 500-529) were delivered with high nose and a roof-mounted bell behind the cab on the fireman’s side. So were the later GP18s built with Blomberg trucks.

[attachment=3:1s74gj98]46-26 Apr 70.tif[/attachment:1s74gj98]

The 400 series engines built with trade-in Alco trucks is more complicated. Some had this roof-mounted bell, apparently the early ones, while later ones had a more typical (of EMD) bell on the side of the hood near the roof.

[attachment=2:1s74gj98]46-25 Apr 70.tif[/attachment:1s74gj98]

As for the horns, most non-rebuilt GP7s had a single-chime horn on the short hood in front of the cab, and another one on the roof facing into the forward exhaust stack.

[attachment=1:1s74gj98]65-31 Dec 70.tif[/attachment:1s74gj98]

Low-nose units, whether rebuilt or original EMD, typically had the horns on the cab roof, with the engineer’s side one facing forward and the other facing rearward. Some rebuilt geeps had the rear-facing horn still in the original position, with the forward-facing horn on the cab roof.

[attachment=0:1s74gj98]46-06 Apr 70.tif[/attachment:1s74gj98]

There were a few oddballs, as could be expected with MoPac, but not many.

Ron Merrick

[robthathaway43]

Thank you again Mopacfirst! Do you know what color the cab interiors were? Was it a light green? Also if anyone has any interesting tidbits of information about MoPac diesel engines could you post it here?

[peggyrothschild]

Luke
The cabs were painted a color called Suede Gray which was a light gray color.

[princessclyne69]

Here’s an example.

[attachment=0:1okkjz6x]94-26 Oct 71.tif[/attachment:1okkjz6x]

On a related note, my train room wastebasket is a five gallon steel paint bucket that I acquired from the Santa Fe Orient Shops. It still has the label on it — AT&SF Suede Gray.

RG7

[robthathaway43]

Thank you both! May have more questions in the future.

[clemmie_doris12]

Luke,

MP locomotives with single chime horns used the Leslie A-200. Virtually all MP GP7 locomotives had dual control stands and in the mid to late ’70s, the horns were moved to the cab roof and placed directly above the horn valve on each side. This minimized the length of tubing needed to connect the horns and valves. Obviously, there were exceptions, but that was the general rule.

I can’t remember the location of the bell on the GP7s, but it was under the frame on the front, somewhere. In looking at my images of GP18s, I see several with the bell on the roof behind the cab. Others show the bell high on the side of the long hood on the fireman’s side of the locomotive. Many look like they were moved to the side from the roof.

[robthathaway43]

Would it be okay if I posted part of this forum on this one here https://modelrailroadforums.com/forum/index.php? I can include a link to the MoPac HS forum too.
Luke Welte

[princessclyne69]

I have an index of recorded observations on locomotives, which centers on the late 60s to mid 70s era. What I show for the bell on GP18s is that engines from 400 to 462 have a roof-mounted bell, except 429, 433 and 454. Then 465 to 499 have side-mounted bell except 481, 484, 488, and these units have the external air filter. 505 to 533, ex 4801 to 4829, have the roof bell. So do 534 to 550, delivered after the renumbering occurred, except 548 and 550.

Watch the fans on GP18s. early ones must have been delivered with two low fans, later ones must have been delivered with two ‘high fans’, fans with shroud. This was probably part of a general EMD design change. Units that had been through a shopping could have either type in either place, basically whichever type was sent over to that unit on the day the fan housings were reinstalled.

Not all units from any of these groups were listed. Listing depended on my actually seeing a unit or having a picture, during the time I was recording this data.

RG7

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