Mopac Trains at Little Rock – 1960

[benjamintickell53]

Originally posted on Yahoo Groups in January 2005.

Forty Five Years ago on the Mopac!

Missouri Pacific Train #1, West Texas Eagle, arriving Little Rock,Ark on Jan 05, 1960 12:35 AM

T&P 2008 E-7
T&P 2006 E-7
T&P 102 Baggage Mail
MP 804 Bagg-Dorm
T&P 460 Deluxe Coach
T&P 451 Deluxe Coach
MP 896 Planetarium
MP 732 Grill Coach
MP Eagle Light 14-4
MP Eagle Country 14-4
MP Eagle Lake 14-4
MP Eagle Dam 14-4
MP Eagle Cliff 5 BR-Lounge
MP 840 Diner
MP Eagle Village 14-1-2
MP Eagle Glide 14-1-2
MP Eagle Summit 14-4
MP Colorado River 6-6-4

Dick Ryker

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Your consist is almost identical to that which I recorded on March 20, 1960 (and previously posted to the group). I had recorded the car line numbers also, and was able to match them against the consist published in the June 1960 public timetable. In your case the New York-Ft. Worth (via PRR) 10-6 was replaced with a 14-4, and there is one 14-4 ahead of the diner in excess to the standard consist. Otherwise we are straight down the line (on my day a 14-4 substituted for the Shreveport 14-2-1), including both of us having a car I cannot account for. It is the last car, a 6-6-4. I recorded it as line number 7513, and the same night also recorded an unaccounted for northbound 6-6-4 in train 32, the Sunshine Special, with line number 7502. My suspicion is that it was a St Louis-Little Rock car, but can anyone confirm or refute that? This has been puzzling me for forty-five years!
Gordon Mott

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Gordon,
You can sleep well tonight. The 6-6-4 cars were being used as a “Thift-T-Sleeper” between St. Louis and Hot Springs via train 831/832 and 32.
Dick Ryker

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Dick,

Thanks — that has always worried me. For some reason I don’t have a Winter 1959 MoPac public TT, nor an Official Guide. The St. Louis-Hot Springs Thrif-T-Sleeper must have been Winter-only as it shows in neither the June ’59 nor the June ’60 timetables. That would make sense, though, and it may well have only been on during the racing season. Throughout that time there was a Chicago-Hot Springs 10-6 off the GM&O and a St Louis-Hot Springs 10-5, both coming south on #7 with the St. Louis car going north on #32 and the Chicago car on #8.

Thanks for the info on the mail storage cars. Whenever I was in LR watching trains it was usually from the Switchtenders’ shanty at the north end of the station and I didn’t pay that much attention to departures to the south.

Here’s a consist for #32, the Sunshine Special, 12:27am on March 20, 1960
MP 8010 Alco PA
MP 8016 Alco PA
MP 4260 HW mail-express
T&P 4127 HW mail-express
MP 2560 HW RPO
T&P 4154 HW mail-express
MP 4247 HW mail-express
MP 6409 HW grill-coach
MP 6176 HW coach
MP 6335 HW coach (letterboard “The Eagle” – rare for a HW)
MP 10039 “Patzcicaro” HW diner-lounge
MP Arkansas River LW 6-6-4 Hot Springs – St. Louis line 7502 Thrif-T-Sleeper (thanks, Dick)
B&O Cascade Sound LW 10-5 Hot Springs – St Louis line 325
MP Eagle Stream LW 14-4 Shreveport – St Louis line 323
MP Eagle Glide LW 14-2-1 El Dorado – St Louis line 324
MP Eagle Rock LW 14-4 Lake Charles – St Louis line 1321
MP 1 HW business car

Pretty sharp secondary train I’d say! What would we give to see this today?
Gordon Mott

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Thanks for the info on #32, Gordon. Note the lightweight storage cars are not in the consist in March! One lightweight storage car ( rather than two) shows up in a consist that I have for February 1961. I’ll post more consists later.

For other list readers, MoPac train #32 was a third section of the Texas Eagle that ran northbound only from Texarkana to St. Louis. This train would carry mail and express, plus it would pick up sleepers at Hope, Gurdon and Little Rock so that #1 and #21 could make a good arrival in St. Louis.
Dick Ryker

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Ah, but I was recording #32 northbound departing Little Rock. The LW cars would have come in on #32, I feel certain, for while I did not record #32 arriving, nor #202 departing for Memphis, I did record #201 arriving from Memphis as below:

Little Rock, Arkansas, 12:15am, March 20, 1960
Train 201
MP 4259 GP-7 (boiler-equipped)
MP 4154 HW mail/express
MP 2072 HW mail/express
MP 4244 HW mail/express
MP 6572 HW coach
MP 867 LW coach (thru on #1 to Ft. Worth)
MP Eagle Beach LW 14-4 line 18, thru on # 1 to Ft. Worth)
MP Eagle Patch* LW 14-4 line 217, thru on #21 to Houston)
MP 217 LW Bag/RPO (Budd, original Colorado Eagle)
MP 713 LW mail/express

* There is no record of there ever having been an “Eagle Patch”; all I can say is that’s what I wrote down forty-five years ago!
Gordon Mott

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My guess would be it was Eagle PATH or Eagle WATCH. PATH being an obvious choice.
Bob Webber

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That would make sense as both names existed and were 14-4’s which would have been correct for the car line number. Only problem is that they were both T&P cars and I recorded “Patch” to be MP. However, having made one mistake for sure, it is entirely possible that I made a second as well. It was late, after all, and I was probably cross-eyed by then!
Gordon Mott

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Gordon, when you refer to line numbers are you referring to the lighted number showing in the window on each Pullman?
Dick Brundage
Tulsa Oklahoma

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Yes, Dick. Perhaps I am using the wrong terminology, but I have always called them car line numbers.
Gordon Mott

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By the way, Gordon Mott and Louis Marre did a nice collaboration on Missouri Pacific “Eagles” in the Winter 2004 “Classic Trains.” Nicely done, Gordon. It was thoughtful to include the retired engineer in the final photograph.
Jim Warsher

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The lighted numbers in car windows were car assignment designations developed by each railroad, and were specific for each train. Pullman line numbers were numbers assigned by the Pullman Company for a particular route that a car type would travel, and could be over more than one railroad.

All this and much more is explained in the ACL & SAL Historical Society’s new book The Sleeping Car, by Ted Shrady. Although we have published the book, its coverage is nationwide and applies to all railroads. Chapters include history of Pullman, car design and development, space, naming, rebuilds, and much else. For more info go to http://www.aclsal.org and click on the book’s link, or ask me here.
Larry Goolsby

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I think that there are Pullman Co. internal lists of Line Numbers that are out there somewhere. It would be great to see one on the net ala Toms lists but that might be a big undertaking. I dont know. I have always thought that each line number was for just one particular car on a route, but I have a SP consist book around here someplace that shows the same line number for different cars on the same train. The cars were of the same type however.
Dick Brundage
Tulsa Oklahoma

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That’s my understanding too – that a “line” meant a route, and could be covered by one or more cars but always the same configuration. One of the few RRs to publicly publish its line numbers was the Seaboard Air Line – its timetables always listed both car designations and line numbers.
Larry Goolsby

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Sorry to come in on this conversation late, but the line numbers are unique to train, route and car type. Multiple car types on the same train going to the same place, get the same line number. The lighted numbers in the windows that wre also on the Pullman space ticket have always been “loading numbers” in my terminology, but I’m not sure it that’s what Pullman called them.
Dave Staplin

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On the MoPac each car on the Eagle trains had a number for loading and destination control. For sleeping cars this was an Alpha-numeric or numeric ID that was different than the Pullman Line Number used to assign cars to specific routes. Coaches carried an alpha-numeric ID.

For example, in 1951 on Train 1, the West Texas Eagle, carried a 14-4 Pullman from New York to El Paso. This was Pullman Line 4083 and listed on the train as car MP 2 (westbound) and PRR 9 (eastbound). The cars assigned were Eagle City, E. Beach, E. Summit, E. Chain, and E. Path.

On Train 21 the South Texas Eagle was a 14-1-2 from St. Louis to Galveston, Pullman Line 3703. Train car numbers 212 (south) and 267 (north). Assigned were cars Eagle Circle and E. County. It seems that cars that originated in MP lines just had numeric IDs.

Coaches were regularly assigned and carried car numbers (the lighted sign on the side) such as FW-1 for Ft. Worth, SA-25 for San Antonio, etc. On the MoPac the train sleeping car numbers were listed in the Public Timetable, but not coach numbers.
Dick Ryker

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