Travel from Tulsa to Little Rock 1933

[florianscroggins]

Does anyone have train tables from 1933, or does anyone know, to help me understand how a person most likely would have traveled from Tulsa to Little Rock?

mtmccoy

[benjamintickell53]

In 1933, several options were available, most were not particularly useful and no really direct rail service.
(1) Midland Valley #2 (motor car), Lv Tulsa 4:00pm, Av Ft Smith 1010pm. MP #117 Lv Ft Smith 304am, arrive Little Rock 805am

(2)MKT #221 Lv Tulsa 545pm, av Muskogee 715pm. MKT #7 Lv Muskogee 1am, av McAlester 235am, no connection on RI until 823pm next evening.

(3) drive from Tulsa to Claremore (33 miles), MP #115 Lv Claremore 638am, av Little Rock 250pm or MP #117 Lv Claremore 1215am, av LR 805am.

(4) multiple schedules, Santa Fe Trailways (bus) Tulsa to Fort Smith (about 4.5 hours) and multiple connecting schedules Missouri Pacific Trailways Fort Smith to Little Rock.

Hope that helps,

Bill Pollard

[florianscroggins]

Mr. Pollard,

We’ve conversed a little before via Facebook. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. It looks like the MP #117 Lv Claremore 1215am, av LR 805am option would get someone to Little Rock just in time to catch the #817 leaving at 8:25 AM for arrival in Hot Springs at 10:20 AM. Do I have that right?

mtmccoy

[benjamintickell53]

Train 117 actually connected to train 17 at Little Rock. Train 817 was the designation from Benton to Hot Springs, once the train left the mainline and was on the Hot Springs branch. That 20 minute connection might seem risky (at least by today’s Amtrak standards which require at least an hour), but No. 117 was carrying a Kansas City-Hot Springs Pullman which was also switched from one train to the other at Little Rock during that short period, so the expectation was that No. 117 would indeed arrive on time.

Bill

PS – Train 17 was the Hot Springs Special, St. Louis to Hot Springs, one of the “hotter” trains on the railroad in the days prior to the Eagles.

[florianscroggins]

Dear Bill,

Thank you again for that clarification. This information is very helpful to me. One last question on this. What kind of amenities were available to “elite” passengers on the 17-817? You’ve already mentioned the Pullman. Any help you could give me with understanding the “experience” one would have had on the “Hot Springs Special” would be greatly appreciated.

I can’t tell you how grateful I am for this information.

Mike

[benjamintickell53]

In the midst of the Depression, amenities were a bit sparse. No. 117 (The Rainbow Special) carried an observation-cafe-parlor car between KC and Coffeyville, so that car would have already been removed by the time a passenger boarded at Claremore. Also carried was the KC-Hot Springs sleeper, a 12-section, 1 drawing room car — pretty standard for Pullman accommodations of that era. It also picked up another 12-1 sleeper at Fort Smith for Little Rock, but that would not have affected the Claremore passenger other than perhaps being awakened slightly when the car was switched into the train. There was no food service into Little Rock on No. 117 at this time, again thanks to the economy cutbacks of the Depression.

Once the KC-Hot Springs sleeper had been added to #17, there was a dining-lounge car in the train which operated all the way to Hot Springs, so breakfast or brunch was possible leaving Little Rock. With a 10:20am scheduled arrival in Hot Springs, I doubt that there was any early lunch service, probably just extended breakfast.

Train 17 was a train of many names and many purposes. Between St. Louis and Knobel, it was also known as the Tennessean. At Knobel, a St. Louis-Memphis sleeper, cafe-lounge and coaches were removed to continue to Memphis via Wynne. A few miles down the railroad, a Newport-Hot Springs dining lounge was added, so passengers on No. 17 could have breakfast into Little Rock, with the car continuing to Hot Springs as noted above. At Benton, all of the Hot Springs cars were removed from No. 17 to continue to the Spa city. No. 17 continued to Texarkana, and at Gurdon a Little Rock-El Dorado dining-parlor was remove for movement on train No. 847 to El Dorado. The remainder of No. 17 (now coaches and head end cars only) continued to Texarkana where it terminated. All that is of no consequence to your passenger traveling Claremore to Hot Springs, LOL, but its interesting to see how the railroad back in the day was capable of having one train serve multiple functions efficiently and in a timely manner, day after day, with multiple episodes of switching en route. Most of the time, it all worked like clockwork. Those of us dealing with today’s railroading and Amtrak can only shake our heads in amazement.

Bill

[florianscroggins]

That is really good information. It helps me to understand, in a better way, how the process worked. Do you know if there were ever times, in those days, when special trains were run or special cars were added to the 817 for VIPs traveling to Hot Springs?

Mike

[florianscroggins]

Sorry, I meant the #17 from LR to HS.

[florianscroggins]

Dear Mr. Pollard,

Was there only one “Hot Springs Special” (#17) that ran between LR and HS daily? Based on the schedule that I have, I see two arrivals into HS and two departures. The No. 219 left LR at 11:25 AM and arrived in HS at 12:45, and the #17 left at 8:25 AM and arrived in HS at 10:20. Is this information accurate? Thank you again.

Mike McCoy

[benjamintickell53]

@[email protected] wrote:

Was there only one “Hot Springs Special” (#17) that ran between LR and HS daily? Based on the schedule that I have, I see two arrivals into HS and two departures. The No. 219 left LR at 11:25 AM and arrived in HS at 12:45, and the #17 left at 8:25 AM and arrived in HS at 10:20. Is this information accurate?

Yes, that information is accurate. The #17 was the Hot Springs Special, with connecting service from Kansas City, etc. #219 was a Memphis-Hot Springs train.

Bill Pollard

[florianscroggins]

Great. Thank you. This has been most helpful.

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