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benjamintickell53Participant
An earlier post raised the issue of the gold “Hall’s China” backstamp seen on one version of the MoPac cobalt teapot, with a question of whether this might be counterfeit. Since that time, another example of the gold backstamp has been discovered on a Palmer House (Chicago) ash tray. Like the MoPac teapot, this piece is marked both with the blue Halls circular stamp and also with the gold Halls backstamp as well as the Palmer House identification. In view of this other example, it is now presumed that at one time, Hall’s utilized the gold backstamp to better identify their production and is thus legitimate.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=1:1cfn45f4]palmer-house.jpg[/attachment:1cfn45f4]
[attachment=0:1cfn45f4]backstamp-1.jpg[/attachment:1cfn45f4]
benjamintickell53Participant1970s notes from a deceased MP china collector indicate that he was aware of at least 5 different pieces of MP cobalt china. His description follows:
ashtray
small teapot
round teapot like Syracuse made in ATSF California Poppy or Mimbreno style
tall cocoa (?) pot
trivet, possibly for salt and pepper shakersBill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantCharlie, that is most interesting. So…. there should be some version of glass creamer with MP buzzsaw that was actually legitimate? I am surprised that there are not some floating around. Could some that we have dismissed as fake in the past actually have been the real deal?
Bill
benjamintickell53ParticipantI understand the reason for a watermark, considering the time and money spent to digitize material, but on some images its quite obtrusive.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantThere were actually two versions of the September 24, 1961 No. 1 timetable, but yes, this date is the first Jenks timetable. The last full system timetable with the multi-color Eagle cover was issued December 4, 1960, shortly before DBJ assumed the presidency on February 1, 1961.
The “full” September 1961 timetable has a brown cover, a full size map inside, two pages of fares, a station index, and almost two pages of traffic representatives. This one is 12 pages, staple bound. The “condensed” September 1961 timetable has a white cover, with inside pages numbered 3-4-5-6-7, corresponding to the same pages in the full timetable. I did not see any changes in times or text which would suggest that one was a later revision of the first. It would be interesting to see the instructions to the passenger department from the executive office telling them to trim the timetable production cost. At the time, it must have looked like a drastic downgrade from the colorful Eagle timetable, which was one of the most attractive in the nation. Looking at the Jenks timetable today, compared to Amtrak’s pitiful service across MP territory, it would be viewed much more favorably.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=0:ftbf8u1o]MP_9-24-1961_full-w.jpg[/attachment:ftbf8u1o] [attachment=1:ftbf8u1o]MP_9-24-1961_cond-w.jpg[/attachment:ftbf8u1o]
benjamintickell53ParticipantA color cover variation -gold- has now been reported for timetable #4. How many other varieties are out there waiting to be discovered?
Bill Pollard
[attachment=0:22nc7w6d]ETT-4-Gold-w.jpg[/attachment:22nc7w6d]
benjamintickell53ParticipantYour assistant is quite astute, and I concur on all points. It appears that some of the pennies are indeed post-1960. As for the coke bottle, I am not sure that Coke was even sold in bottles in this car or the adjacent diner-lounge, but if they were, it would almost certainly have been the smaller size bottle with the raised lettering. At least the cards are of proper vintage rather than having something like the screaming Eagle logo on the back.
I wasn’t going to mention it, but that cup probably should be Eagle china too.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53Participant@arkrail wrote:
G.L. Bonney – (listed in 1908 Pocket List)
L.M. Hill – ca 1916
L.E. Martin – circa 1922 to 2nd half 1940 (per Pocket List, listed 1940-2nd, gone by 1941-1st)
W.F. Ziervogel, started 2nd half 1940. Retired July 1, 1953 per MP Mag.
A.C. Drui, replaced Ziervogel on July 1, 1953 per MP Mag. Listed on menus into early 1965. (Drui’s name last appeared in May 1963 Official Guide; Dining car Superintendent position not listed in Guide thereafter)
J.W. Cornett, (By 1966, possibly 1965, continuing into 1970. Through at least 5-68 per menu; Pocket List thru 4th 1970 ??)
J.M. Toler, was reportedly given responsibility for dining car operation after Cornett retired.As a result of additional information and research, the above list should be revised as follows:
A.C. Drui replaced Ziervogel on July 1, 1953 and retired ca July 1966 after 42 years of MP service.
J.W. Cornett was appointed general superintendent of dining cars to replace Drui (ca July 1966, reported in August 1966 MP News) and remained in that position until at least 1970 and possibly through the end of MP passenger service on April 30, 1971.
It is currently unclear whether J.M. Toler was given specific responsibility for dining car operation in the final months, or whether Cornett simply reported to him.Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantThe headrests look great! I’m glad that MPHS was able to participate in the restoration of this unique piece of equipment. Please advise if another small run of headrest covers is produced for sale.
On the timetable rack, those 1965 public timetables do need to be replaced with the 1960 or earlier colorful Eagle timetables to be historically accurate – these cars were long out of service before those 1965 timetables were issued.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantIn September 1963, Gene Hull took a couple of photos of the Alco PA dead line at North Little Rock. In this group, a total of six blue units can be seen, although we know the number of only one. A recap of the known blue units thus far: 47, 48, 49, 50, 52, 57, 58, 66, 68, 69, 75 and 77.
At least two (and likely more) were repainted into Jenks blue before they were renumbered, including 8014 and 8026.
Another question is when these units were actually pulled from service. They were still being used some, including on the Texas Eagle, in July 1963, but were all on the dead line by September 1963 if Gene Hull’s date notes are correct.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=1:1f3x6j5l]Hull-RR453-MP-PA-NLR-9-1963_WL.jpg[/attachment:1f3x6j5l]
[attachment=0:1f3x6j5l]Hull-RR454-MP-PA-NLR-9-1963_WL.jpg[/attachment:1f3x6j5l]
benjamintickell53ParticipantAs rebuilt/modernized 6326-6329 were 52-seat coaches. 5 additional (non-revenue) seats were in the two restroom lounges so the diagrams show capacity of 57. We have gotten a number of additional diagrams since the heavyweight passenger CD was published. I believe the diagram for this series is in the original CD, but if not, let me know.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53Participant49, 57 and 77 for sure were blue. Mike Condren shot all of those in Little Rock, mid-1962 to early 1963. It would be a useful process to compile a list of which PA’s received Jenks blue and which ones went to scrap still in Eagle colors. I believe a Jenks PA pulled the last Pacific commuter run.
Did the PA’s ever go into freight service when displaced by the non-EMD purge, or did they just got straight to the deadlines at Precision National?
I saw a sales list of stuff being sold off the MoP PAs that were at Precision National, and the price for an Eagle was in the range of $20. Shipping was considerably more, and I was unable to persuade my parents to purchase one, my finances in the 8th grade not being sufficient to cover the cost. Surely others purchased one, but I have never seen a PA Eagle for sale (and very few of the EMD version).
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantI have purchased a sleeper room for daytime trips many times on Amtrak, and when involved with the Amtrak Texas Eagle revenue management, we routinely sold “day rooms” between short distances (Austin-San Antonio, Chicago-Bloomington Normal, etc.) when the rooms were not otherwise sold for longer distance travel. I’m sure the same preference, a quite, private area with the availability of a table for working, was true in the Pullman era.
Bill
benjamintickell53ParticipantIn this case, “sleeper as parlor” means that seat space was sold in the sleeper (first class fare plus Pullman seat charge) for daytime occupancy. At this late date, its difficult to say why this was done, but most likely the Pullman space was already being sold for day room occupancy between STL and KCY and Pullman or MoPac wanted to protect that service at least until other arrangements were made.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantWhen St. Louis Union Station first reopened as a shopping venue after sitting vacant for years, there were many excellent historical displays throughout the former concourse and train shed area. One such display detailed the trip of the last Pullman Conductor on the Texas Eagle on December 31, 1968. I never got the material photographed before the displays disappeared under later ownership, but part of the display included a St. Louis Post-Dispatch article which incorporated much of the information. That article, transcribed, is attached as a PDF file.
[attachment=1:1eily0zc]MoPac Pullman Making Last Trip from St Louis.pdf[/attachment:1eily0zc]
Similar coverage of the last day of Pullman service was provided by the Palestine Herald-Press, “The Pullman Departs Palestine,” providing more detail such as car names for the last southbound trip. The last northbound Pullmans in revenue service passed through Palestine in the early evening of December 31.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=0:1eily0zc]Pullman-3w.jpg[/attachment:1eily0zc] -
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