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benjamintickell53Participant
I can understand where changing a casting or physical part of the car might be more cost than the company desires, but failure to have the lettering correct is either very sloppy (no?) research, or they assume most modelers can’t read the fine print. On lettering, particularly with MPHS assistance, it would not have cost any more to do it right the first time.
Bill Pollardbenjamintickell53ParticipantHere is an enlarged view of the pilot from Ron’s photo. Black pilot stands out, but should be an easy fix for anyone except people like me whose painting efforts look like they applied the paint with a toothbrush. One reason I leave modeling to the experts.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=0:3194cvmn]Rapide-FA-w.jpg[/attachment:3194cvmn]
benjamintickell53ParticipantWhat about that black pilot? Other than that, they look like a really nice model.
BP
benjamintickell53ParticipantI do not think the Rapido steam generator cars are anything close to the three T&P steam generator cars, which were rebuilt from heavyweight coaches in the Marshall shops in 1951-1952. As Ron noted, there were no MP steam generator cars. A T&P diagram for these cars is below.
The former T&P 50, now in MP maintenance of way boxcar red, is located on South Joplin Avenue in Joplin, MO, as of last year. I haven’t visited the car, but it appears to be either a shop or perhaps an outbuilding to an adjacent house.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=0:3u1yvsga]TP-25.pdf[/attachment:3u1yvsga]
benjamintickell53ParticipantHere is the Missouri Pacific magazine article from January 1927, detailing the 40-year pins for the veterans association. Note that from the article, this didn’t indicate retired employees necessarily, but was open to those who had worked for the company for 40 years, many of whom were apparently still employed.
The “official” 40-year pin from 1927 onward is illustrated with the article, a slightly larger pin with more elaborate border design. I have another Missouri Pacific pin, the same size as the more common Booster Club pins, but missing the “Lines” designation and with a blue background. Could these have been an earlier version of the 40-year pins?
Bill Pollard
[attachment=1:8pbk3qam]40-year-pin.jpg[/attachment:8pbk3qam]
[attachment=0:8pbk3qam]booster-pins-w.jpg[/attachment:8pbk3qam]
benjamintickell53ParticipantThanks to Charlie Duckworth, we have a little more information on MP/StLB&M cars 477 and 478. The cars were originally built in 1926, and the configuration was 8 seats in cafe, 12 seats in lounge (sold as parlor car seats in 1956 and later), and 20 seats in the coach section. Hopefully photos of these cars exist somewhere.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantPullman line 4505 operated between New Orleans and Oakland CA, NOT&M(MP) between New Orleans and Houston and Santa Fe west of Houston. On May 8, 1956 the New Orleans-Houston segment was discontinued, with the line continuing to operate from Houston west. At that time, MP began selling the lounge seats in the diner as parlor seats, to offer first class service since Pullman day room usage was no longer available.
I have no information on the MP cars used from mid-1956 through 1957. However the Houston Depot Passenger Agent Daily Activities sheets in the Gulf Coast Chapter NRHS Archives offer the following information:
In January and February 1958, as well as December 1958, MP cars 477 and 478 were utilized. The 1958 ORPTE characterizes these cars as “chair car & dining-parlor, seating 54. These two cars are somewhat of a mystery, having originated as StLB&M (Gulf Coast Lines) cars of the same numbers. General MP practice was to number lightweight cars in 3-digit series, with heavyweight cars in 4-digit series. However, these cars had ice air-conditioning which seems unusual on a lightweight car. Car 477 was last shown in the January 1959 ORPTE, while 478 last appeared in the January 1961 ORPTE, thus neither car shows up in the MP 1963 passenger car fleet renumbering. Does anyone have diagrams of these cars?
In April 1959, MP cars 462, 478 and 10402 were all utilized at times during the month. 462 was a diner-parlor seating 40, while 10402 was a diner-lounge seating 32. In June and December 1959, and June 1960, cars 462 and 10402 were used.
Only a handful of daily reports survived for January 1961, but cars 478 and 10402 were noted. In April 1962, cars 10238 and 10402 were utilized. The 1958 ORPTE lists 10238 as a diner-lounge seating 18.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=0:3fv6shu8]GCC997Page3-w_oct-3-58.jpg[/attachment:3fv6shu8]
benjamintickell53ParticipantIf a T-shirt along this topic was ever considered, it MUST contain the slogan “Its 70 in the Sunshine when its 100 in the shade.”
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantGood question. In 1936, NOT&M was firmly under MP control. However, note that on the earlier map, all of the Texas lines are excluded… NOT&M and also I-GN. I assume that there was probably another colorized map for those lines.
I was hoping that by posting these, others might come forward with other maps for different years which might help answer when the Texas lines were included in these colorized division maps.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantFrom Facebook:
A Missouri Pacific Railroad 2-8-0 steam locomotive, No. 124, is pictured in Topeka, Kan., on 1940 with a lone combination passenger car. This train would have traveled north over a branch line from Lomax, Kan., which was a junction on the former MoPac Kansas City-Pueblo line. I have no other details on the train.
(Photo by W.A. Gibson Sr.; from Larry Byers collection)
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So…. if this photo is 1940, and Public Timetables indicate that passenger service ended in 1938, could this have been a mixed train?[attachment=0:1wshzk5p]124-Topeka-1940.jpg[/attachment:1wshzk5p]
benjamintickell53ParticipantA similar MoPac cobalt pot was manufactured by Fraunfelter China, Zanesville, Ohio. This pot is slightly taller than the Halls version (4″ versus 3 7/8″) and is slightly heavier. The concave section of the base is not glazed. Fraunfelter China operated from 1923 to 1939, a much shorter time period than Hall China’s 1903 to present production period, which no doubt accounts for the lack of information about MP use of this manufacturer. Restaurant China, Volume II, by Conroy, lists the “known” railroad customers as CN, C&NW, GN, IC, NYC, SP and Uintah. Obviously Missouri Pacific should also be listed as a customer.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=2:1jwdwmx0]FR-1-w.jpg[/attachment:1jwdwmx0]
[attachment=1:1jwdwmx0]FR-2-w.jpg[/attachment:1jwdwmx0]
[attachment=0:1jwdwmx0]FR-backstamp-w.jpg[/attachment:1jwdwmx0]
benjamintickell53ParticipantAnother cobalt shape that is often seen is the 3 7/8″ (base to rim) chocolate pot. This pot has the Missouri Pacific buzzsaw on one side, and the concave part of the base is glazed. The pots made by Hall have HALL incised or cut into the base, with the letters filled by the cobalt glazing. On close examination with a strong light, a circular HALL backstamp can also be seen. In the case of very dark cobalt glazing, these markings are difficult to see. On one example, Halls China has been hand painted in gold as a circular backstamp, generally over the HALL backstamp. Inasmuch as the other gold decorations on these pots (gold rim on lid and spout, gold trim on handle) were all hand painted, it seems possible that this painted backstamp was a factory version.
Note the difference in lids in the two pots. It is unknown whether the flat lid on the “gold backstamp” pot is a replacement of some sort or whether it was original, denoting that the pot was used for a different purpose.
Thanks to Jay Reed and RailroadCommissary.com for allowing use of their photos to supplement this discussion.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=5:1tna4sgw]MPCobaltpot10043.jpg[/attachment:1tna4sgw]
[attachment=4:1tna4sgw]MPCobaltpot10043b-w.jpg[/attachment:1tna4sgw]
[attachment=1:1tna4sgw]another pot.jpg[/attachment:1tna4sgw]
[attachment=0:1tna4sgw]another pot-2.jpg[/attachment:1tna4sgw]
[attachment=3:1tna4sgw]Halls-gold-backstamp-w.jpg[/attachment:1tna4sgw]
[attachment=2:1tna4sgw]Halls-gold-backstamp-top-w.jpg[/attachment:1tna4sgw]
benjamintickell53ParticipantHere is a very early, probably 1890s, ticket envelope that was used in Memphis.
[attachment=0:20dvskex]Memphis-division-w.jpg[/attachment:20dvskex]
benjamintickell53ParticipantContinuing with coverage of MP ticket envelopes…
[attachment=5:3vazeo0m]1955a.jpg[/attachment:3vazeo0m][attachment=4:3vazeo0m]1955b.jpg[/attachment:3vazeo0m]
The circa 1955 ticket envelope has to rank as one of the most attractive envelopes issued by any road. matching both the MP and T&P book tickets as well as the public timetables which had similarly colorful covers.=======================================
[attachment=3:3vazeo0m]1962a.jpg[/attachment:3vazeo0m][attachment=2:3vazeo0m]1962b.jpg[/attachment:3vazeo0m]
By 1962, Jenks austerity measures were in place, and the multi-color envelopes had been replaced with a much simpler but still elegant envelope which now reflected the Jenks blue paint which had been applied to MP-TP passenger trains. These envelopes also reflected the increased consolidation of MP and TP operations.======================================
[attachment=1:3vazeo0m]1965a.jpg[/attachment:3vazeo0m][attachment=0:3vazeo0m]1965b.jpg[/attachment:3vazeo0m]
The final version of ticket envelope was this attractive dark blue style, which again copied the 1965 timetable cover design.benjamintickell53ParticipantContinuing with ticket envelope coverage.
[attachment=8:1bmjynso]1943a.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso][attachment=7:1bmjynso]1943b.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso][attachment=6:1bmjynso]1943c.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso]
The 1943 envelope reflected the realities of World War II. This version came in a smaller size and also regular size. The front design was identical on both but the regular size envelope had the expanded graphics on the reverse.=======================================
[attachment=5:1bmjynso]1944a.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso][attachment=4:1bmjynso]1944b.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso]
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[attachment=3:1bmjynso]1946a.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso][attachment=2:1bmjynso]1946b.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso]
The 1944 and 1946 versions were similar on the front, but the 1946 version promoted new Eagle trains which were planned, some of which never arrived as named, such as the Sunshine Eagle and the Nueces Eagle.=======================================
[attachment=1:1bmjynso]1948a.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso][attachment=0:1bmjynso]1948b.jpg[/attachment:1bmjynso]
By 1948, all promotion was focused on the streamlined Eagle trains. -
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