[princessclyne69]

I’m wondering where the wood chips were shipped from and to. It certainly wouldn’t have been my neck of the woods.

For the cars that went to polyethylene service, I’m sure that meant those little round pellets (nurdles). There, the traffic pattern is easier. The production of PE was commercialized during and after WWII, so several of our favorite petrochemical facilities in MoPac territory would have been producing it, in relatively small quantities at first. It’s a fairly light material so those very large boxcars would have been well suited, until the development of large volume covered hoppers. I’ll bet they would have had to tape the doors.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

And, here is a very similar car to the ones we’re discussing, in its original appearance and from the B end.

https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/52975

Also posted on RealSTMFC today.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

Ed Hawkins provided a very detailed history of these cars on the STMFC site.

For those that don’t have access to that site, these cars started life as double door automobile cars with end doors, 1929. Most were rebuilt in 1941, with a few more in 1942 and 1945-46, at DeSoto. They were converted to single 6′ door, and the auxiliary door opening was filled with siding and a new Howe truss brace added, which was asymmetrical relative to the others due to the width of its span. This is visible on the wreck photo. What’s not visible is that the original vertical shaft handbrake was replaced with a Universal power handbrake, along with conversion to AB brake gear, both of which upgrades were normal for MP cars during this period. The end door was sealed closed and new end lining applied. The number series of these cars, as rebuilt, was 45251-45494.

There were at least two other series of cars that had similar rebuilding.

Ron Merrick

[princessclyne69]

I checked, and the year that the stenciling practices were simplified was 1927.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

The ARA recommended lettering practices for the 1920s were somewhat different. This car has the typical recommended lettering practices that were simplified in the late 20s, meaning fewer pieces of information stenciled on the car, and some of those allowed to be moved to the car end.

One of the very early Eagle articles from the mid-1980s showed some MP cars that had the earlier stenciling style along with the later ones.

I believe there are two Charlie Winters photos showing this series of USRA box (there were only 250), possibly even the same car, many years apart in time.

There was also a recent discussion on the RealSTMFC group on groups,io about the differences in the earlier vs. later recommended stenciling.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

Thanks, Ted. I hadn’t seen any from the steam era, so this is useful.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

I have an index of recorded observations on locomotives, which centers on the late 60s to mid 70s era. What I show for the bell on GP18s is that engines from 400 to 462 have a roof-mounted bell, except 429, 433 and 454. Then 465 to 499 have side-mounted bell except 481, 484, 488, and these units have the external air filter. 505 to 533, ex 4801 to 4829, have the roof bell. So do 534 to 550, delivered after the renumbering occurred, except 548 and 550.

Watch the fans on GP18s. early ones must have been delivered with two low fans, later ones must have been delivered with two ‘high fans’, fans with shroud. This was probably part of a general EMD design change. Units that had been through a shopping could have either type in either place, basically whichever type was sent over to that unit on the day the fan housings were reinstalled.

Not all units from any of these groups were listed. Listing depended on my actually seeing a unit or having a picture, during the time I was recording this data.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

The ‘4 doors per side’ cars are shown in the MoPac Summary of Equipment as ‘2 – 20′-0″ plug doors’ and are numbered 272000-272020, total 21 cars. Built 1965. There were also TP 272021-272024, total 4 cars, built 1965, and TP 272045-272050, total 6 cars, built 1967. This is from the 1968 SoE.

By 1976 only 20 cars are shown in the 272000-272020 series, but two new cars numbered 272051-272052. These two are shown as 70 ton rather than the 50 ton of the earlier series. with different special equipment. These two are shown as built 1970. This year’s listing also shows TP 272021-272024, with 4 cars, TP 272025-272044, 18 cars, built 1966, and TP 272045-272050, as 50 ton cars.

No CEI cars of the 4 door per side type are shown in any of these years. Note that, since one end of these cars’ route was in Arlington, there would almost have to be some TP cars. There must have been a fair bit of mileage on the MP on their assigned route also. And wherever the other end(s) of the route were, would mean that one or more other railroads would have also owned some of these cars, more or less in proportion to the mileage of each since these were pool cars, but evidently not on the CEI.

Hope this helps.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

Here’s an example.

[attachment=0:1okkjz6x]94-26 Oct 71.tif[/attachment:1okkjz6x]

On a related note, my train room wastebasket is a five gallon steel paint bucket that I acquired from the Santa Fe Orient Shops. It still has the label on it — AT&SF Suede Gray.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

The scalehouse I have may very well have been one that Bill produced, then. Guess I’ll see if I can backdate it by painting it yellow and brown.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

I did buy a couple, to reward them for listening to us. Now that I have them, I might buy a couple more. That’s them in the middle, between a decaled and weathered one on the left and a Branchline one (different series) on the right.

[attachment=0:1nsa4tnk]P1150066.JPG[/attachment:1nsa4tnk]

These are early cars as 10′-6″ tall boxcars go, built in 1945-46. The number series are from the Texas lines, so these are painted as if they’d been shopped after 1956. But fairly common cars, being about 8% of the 40′ steel boxcar roster.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

The early GP18s (1961 numbers 500-529) were delivered with high nose and a roof-mounted bell behind the cab on the fireman’s side. So were the later GP18s built with Blomberg trucks.

[attachment=3:1s74gj98]46-26 Apr 70.tif[/attachment:1s74gj98]

The 400 series engines built with trade-in Alco trucks is more complicated. Some had this roof-mounted bell, apparently the early ones, while later ones had a more typical (of EMD) bell on the side of the hood near the roof.

[attachment=2:1s74gj98]46-25 Apr 70.tif[/attachment:1s74gj98]

As for the horns, most non-rebuilt GP7s had a single-chime horn on the short hood in front of the cab, and another one on the roof facing into the forward exhaust stack.

[attachment=1:1s74gj98]65-31 Dec 70.tif[/attachment:1s74gj98]

Low-nose units, whether rebuilt or original EMD, typically had the horns on the cab roof, with the engineer’s side one facing forward and the other facing rearward. Some rebuilt geeps had the rear-facing horn still in the original position, with the forward-facing horn on the cab roof.

[attachment=0:1s74gj98]46-06 Apr 70.tif[/attachment:1s74gj98]

There were a few oddballs, as could be expected with MoPac, but not many.

Ron Merrick

[princessclyne69]

That online blog, by Todd McAllister, is the inspiration for the MPHS project. Being in O scale, he could start with a block of balsa wood and laminate styrene over it. He drew the original plans.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

Here are top-of-the-head answers to some of your questions. I believe that the dates when the repainting and renumbering started is well documented, but approximately May 1961. Renumbering of locomotives took perhaps three months to finish. The use of solid blue (Jenks blue, although he didn’t call it that) began at very close to the same time, perhaps a few weeks earlier than the beginning of renumbering. So there were a small number of locomotives that were repainted first, while still carrying their old numbers. Several of those have been documented. The opposite case, where almost the entire locomotive fleet was renumbered but many or most locomotives still carried their old paint, went on from 1961 until 1965 with a dwindling number of, probably ratty-looking, engines toward the end of that period. I do not know if it has been documented for sure which were the last engines not to have been repainted. It’s entirely possible that some of the switch engines, which were solid black, could have been among the last ones still working in old paint.

Bear in mind that starting around 1957, after the consolidation of major subsidiaries, a number of older F units were repainted in basically the Eagle scheme but with only the words MISSOURI PACIFIC, without LINES, on the sides. These units also received a smaller nose herald and a few other changes. I am not aware of any early Geeps being repainted in this manner, but new Geeps after this period (the GP18s) were lettered without the word LINES. This was also true of at least one group of passenger cars, the ten economy baggage cars as well as the one Slumbercoach leased to MP.

There are preserved company documents for the renumbering of locomotives, for passenger cars, and for freight cars. The passenger car renumbering was carried out on roughly the same timeframe as the locomotive renumbering. The freight car renumbering did not begin until 1965, although several series of new freight cars were delivered earlier with numbering in the new scheme.

As for the bell locations, the bell isn’t shown on most locomotive diagrams but I believe all the GP7 and GP9 locomotives had the bell in the normal manufacturer’s standard position, which was under the frame just behind the front truck, on the left side (fireman’s side) I believe. Some GP18s had this also, but the 400 series and many of the 500s had the bell on top of the hood, on the left side behind the cab.

Hope this helps.

RG7

[princessclyne69]

There was an article in the Eagle (written by me, with photos from Ed Hawkins and at least one that I shot, still in MoW service) on the 13 stake flatcars. They can be modified from the Red Caboose car without too much effort, since there are extra stake pockets in each kit.

At least one of these 1937-38 cars survived long enough to be painted yellow (!) by somebody’s MoW forces. I’ll try to resist the impulse to post the photo of that one.

The 50′ flats, which are really rare in the prototype world, I need to look into. Besides the MP 8100s, there were also StLB&M 8350-8399 also shown on the same diagram. I think I did one, many years ago when the Athearn car was just about the only game in town. Carving off the side brake mounting isn’t that difficult, either.

The diagram for this car is silent on the number of stake pockets.

RG7

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