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March 20, 2016 at 6:03 pm #5719benjamintickell53Participant
Does anyone have a list of the C&EI passenger cars which were actually repainted and renumbered into the MP passenger scheme, but with C&EI buzzsaws? Photos do exist to confirm renumbering and repainting of three coaches with a blue window stripe and C&EI logo.
Coaches:
MP/C&EI 444 was former C&EI 479, renumbered 11-17-1967 (blue window stripe, C&EI buzzsaw, C&EI on letterboard)
MP/C&EI 445 was former C&EI 480, renumbered 3-20-1968
MP/C&EI 448 was former C&EI 483, renumbered 10-4-1967 (blue window stripe, C&EI buzzsaw, C&EI on letterboard)After the C&EI Danville Flyer was turned over to the L&N on June 6, 1969, these three coaches were retained by MP and migrated to other MP passenger operations out of St. Louis. In September and December 1969, they were observed on the Texas Eagle. They were sold in 1970 to Edwards International, for resale to NdeM.
The 1968 MP equipment summary shows other C&EI cars in the list of MP revenue passenger equipment:
C&EI 6-24 (15 cars) identified as 50-foot box-express cars – these are former troop kitchen cars. Page 64 of Stout’s Route of the Eagles book shows one of these cars in the background, clearly a troop sleeper and clearly in MP blue with a C&EI buzzsaw. Current evidence from C&EI diagrems suggest that only four of these cars were actually renumbered into the MP passenger series:
MP/C&EI 112 was former C&EI 12, renumbered 10-13-1967
MP/C&EI 115 was former C&EI 15, renumbered 11-21-1967
MP/C&EI 119 was former C&EI 19, renumbered 11-16-1967
MP/C&EI 121 was former C&EI 21, renumbered 11-16-1967MP/C&EI 34 – tavern car – this was former 703 (tavern-lounge), renumbered 34 on 11-22-1967. Car was sold to L&N in 1969. This may have been the food service car on the Danville Flyer during the time that train was operated by MP. Can anyone confirm whether this car actually received MP colors?
MP 125-132 are shown as being 50-foot box-express cars, leased to Missouri Pacific per the 1-1968 Equipment Summary. Photos of #128 and 130 in October 1967 confirm the cars in MP blue with a MPL buzzsaw and number, and a C&EI ownership stencil on upper left corner of car. It is probable that these 50-foot box-express cars were originally C&EI #25-38, built by AC&F in 1955 for CHTT and leased to C&EI. The cars leased to MP are shown as having 110v AC trainline capability, while the four remaining C&EI cars did not have any electrical trainline capability.
A photo exists of a boxcars lettered C&EI 255958 and 255960, obviously now in freight service but with MP blue passenger paint and a C&EI buzzsaw. A similar photo was taken by Ron Merrick, showing C&EI 255959. According to C&EI diagrams, these 50-foot boxcars came from the C&EI series 3900-3939. It is currently unclear why these cars were painted in MP passenger colors. (The January 1, 1970 MP Summary of Equipment and the 1971 Equipment Register shows 255957-255960 as one series of four 50-foot boxcars. By the time of the 1-1972 Summary of Equipment, these cars had been consolidated in a larger series 255933-255960, 31 cars, all built 1955.) In 1968, the MP equipment summary lists cars C&EI 125-132 as 50-foot express boxcars leased to MP. Photographs of two of these cars in Eagle blue (cars 128 and 130) confirm they had a Missouri Pacific buzzsaw. It is possible that when the lease expired on these cars, they were renumbered with the C&EI freight numbers as indicated above, and with a C&EI buzzsaw replacing the MP buzzsaw, but additional documentation will be needed to verify that premise. If that is the case, there might be as many as 8 of the boxcars which were in Eagle blue paint.
Other C&EI cars listed on MP 1968 equipment summary but likely never renumbered:
C&EI 467, 470, 472, 474 (4 cars, Pullman Standard) – all of these numbers conflict with existing MP or TP coaches, which suggests that these original C&EI numbers were not changed to match the MP passenger roster number system. All were sold to MTA in 1970.
C&EI 475-484 (8 cars, Budd) – again, these C&EI numbers conflict with existing MP or TP coach numbers. All of the Budd cars were acquired by L&N in 1969 and renumbered by L&N in 1970.C&EI 506 diner. Originally a baggage-mail-lounge with 15-foot RPO compartment. Rebuilt to diner in 1953. Retired 1969, became MPX-14167.
C&EI 606 snack bar, became L&N 2802 in 1970 and was later acquired by Amtrak.
C&EI 900-903 6-6-4 sleepers. 900-901 and 903 retired 1969, sold to Edwards International for NdeM. 902 sold to Auto-Liner 1969, converted to business car and sold to MP as business car #2 in 1977.
C&EI 904-905 4-4-5-1 sleepers. 904 became L&N 3446 in 1969, later to NdeM. 905 retired 1969 and sold to Edwards International for NdeM.C&EI E-7s 27, 28 and E-9 43 are also known to have operated on MP passenger trains, 27-28 being turned back to L&N in June 1969 but 43 being retained until the end of MP passenger service, and used on several notable last runs.
Thanks for any additions, corrections or revisions.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=1:2kb0hh5c]1968-psgr-summary.jpg[/attachment:2kb0hh5c]
[attachment=0:2kb0hh5c]CEI-renumbering-1968.jpg[/attachment:2kb0hh5c]
October 5, 2017 at 11:41 am #8486benjamintickell53ParticipantC&EI 6000-6001, SW1 switchers, were frequently assigned to the depot switcher job at Little Rock Union Depot, appearing very briefly in black and then in new Jenks blue. While not technically passenger equipment, these units were part of the Arkansas Division passenger service for an undetermined period of time circa 1968.
Bill Pollard
January 16, 2019 at 3:00 am #9217benjamintickell53ParticipantFollowing up on the earlier discussion about C&EI passenger cars being renumbered into the MP series, the main remaining “mystery” involves the 50-foot express cars that are shown as MP 125-132 in the Missouri Pacific’s 1-1968 equipment summary. Two of these cars were photographed in the trains through Little Rock in October 1967 and early 1968. Stenciling on the upper left roofline is believed to contain the information that these cars were leased from C&EI.
Later photographs show cars in the 255957-255960 series, lettered C&EI and now with a C&EI buzzsaw. C&EI/MP diagrams suggest that these cars came from the C&EI 3900-3929 boxcar series, but that does not explain the passenger paint scheme on these cars. At this point, it appears that the MP 125-132 cars were renumbered when the lease expired. Can anyone provide other photo or paper documentation to explain these cars or verify this speculation?
Bill Pollard
[attachment=3:3is02gt2]CEI-130a.jpg[/attachment:3is02gt2]
[attachment=4:3is02gt2]CEI-128.jpg[/attachment:3is02gt2]
[attachment=0:3is02gt2]CEI-255960-10-1974-Egan-w.jpg[/attachment:3is02gt2]
[attachment=2:3is02gt2]255959-Ron-Merrick-Wichita-Aug-71.jpg[/attachment:3is02gt2]
[attachment=1:3is02gt2]CEI express car 255958.jpg[/attachment:3is02gt2]
January 16, 2019 at 12:30 pm #9218Bud MossParticipantHi Bill,
Well, I “thought” I had seen it all! Never saw a photo of these cars. Although I don’t have any information, it sure was a treat for me this morning.
Jerry
January 19, 2019 at 3:24 am #9227Mike VanaParticipantIt’s a match for the former Branchline 50’ car.
Jim
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