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March 1, 2019 at 4:58 am #6223rosalindeParticipant
I’ve been attempting to find information on the types of steam whistles the MoPac used on their locomotives from about the 20’s to the end of steam, but so far I’ve been unable to find anything. Google is less than helpful, and I unfortunately don’t have any books that would have such information. To help narrow down what I’m looking for, I’m wanting to know 1): what type(s) of whistle(s) did they use (3 chime, 5 chime, 6 chime?); 2): whether they made their own whistles or if they bought whistles from a third party; and 3): if they used different types based on the service of the locomotive (one type for freight, one type for passenger), or if they used the same type for all locomotives?
March 1, 2019 at 6:57 pm #9301bargetanikaParticipantLearn to identify by sight and you can see what is on the the engines by looking at the photographs.
The best I can tell , single chime (hooter) whistles were on the earliest 19th century engines, like most other US roads. 3 chimes, usually identifiable as a uniform height cylinder with 3 scalloped cuts around the bottom of the bell, came into favor throughout the US maybe around the 1890s until right before WW 1. The taller the bell, the deeper the tone. In the early teens, you start seeing a lot of multiple chime step top whistles. These were most often made of cast steel by the appliance manufacturers. In general, 5 chimes were shorter and higher pitched than 6 chimes.
The biggest modern engines with higher boiler pressures had deep toned steamboat whistles, which avoided squealing on the highest tuned cells if overblown. They seem to have been mostly 3 chimes as best I can tell.
I hope this oversimplified over generalized explanation helps. I’ll post again after while about what I see myself on Mopac steam engines. And refer to photos in Collias’s book.
March 1, 2019 at 7:02 pm #9302bargetanikaParticipantFrom the 20’s on, MP used cast steel 5 and 6 chimes on almost everything except 4-8-2’s and up which appear to mostly have had steamboat whistles. There of course are exceptions to everything.
March 1, 2019 at 7:45 pm #9303bargetanikaParticipantGet on YouTube, search for md whistles, and spend a pleasant afternoon. You get to identify the sound with the visual , which you can then compare to MP steam engine photographs.
March 2, 2019 at 3:00 am #9304bargetanikaParticipantThe pictures are particularly valuable.
October 15, 2019 at 12:52 pm #9502bargetanikaParticipantApril 24, 2021 at 1:29 pm #10126lidatownson39ParticipantFound some pertinent info for steam whistles fr an early Q&A in The Eagle if this interests anyone. Apparently all heavy passenger and dual-use power-the 6600s, 1150s, 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s-had steamboat chimes. Some of the 6400s got them later on as well. The 2200s had something close to a Baldwin standard chime. No pure freight power (2-8-2s, 2-10-2s, 2-8-4s, 2-8-0s) had steamboat chimes.
April 26, 2021 at 8:43 pm #10129bargetanikaParticipantSingle bell whistle. On the Mopac, only on the oldest engines although I think I saw a 4-8-0 with a short one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki_short_long_whistle.jpg
Three chime whistle. Most had flat tops. These were in favor until around maybe 1910. Steamboat whistles were large, very long 3 chimes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki_single_bell_chime_image.jpg
5 chime/6 chime whistle. Began to find favor after 1900. The 6 chime is usually longer to add a deeper note to the 5 chime sound; these are the “moaning” whistles. Many roads used the mellower 6 chimes for passenger engines but the MP put them on everything including switchers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki_6_chime_b.jpg
Study prototype photographs. Identify the whistle type and listen to the (admittedly model) whistle sounds on this website:
https://soundtraxx.com/reference/sound-samples/tsunami2-steam-sounds
Match the whistle type to the appropriate sound samples, there will be several. Pay no attention to the road name given, we will never know exactly how MP whistles were tuned. If you have the Tsunami2-2, Pick the one out of the appropriate type selections that you like best. No one will be able to fault you.
April 27, 2021 at 1:42 am #10131rosalindeParticipant@mjorstad wrote:
Found some pertinent info for steam whistles fr an early Q&A in The Eagle if this interests anyone. Apparently all heavy passenger and dual-use power-the 6600s, 1150s, 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s-had steamboat chimes. Some of the 6400s got them later on as well. The 2200s had something close to a Baldwin standard chime. No pure freight power (2-8-2s, 2-10-2s, 2-8-4s, 2-8-0s) had steamboat chimes.
I had noticed since originally posting that the long-bell 3 chimes were exclusive to passenger and mixed duty locomotives, but thank you for the confirmation.
I’m pretty sure the whistles on the 2201’s weren’t made by Baldwin. As far as I know, Baldwin only ever made single chime whistles and short-bell flat-top 3 chimes, and the 2201’s wore what look like Hancock’s long-bell step-top 3 chimes. The different sound more than likely has to do with the fact that the whistles on the 2201’s were attached to the superheater. All of Missouri Pacific’s other locomotives had their whistles attached to the steam dome. Superheated steam sounds very different from saturated steam.
I have found a handful of photos of the 5335 MT-73’s wearing 6 chimes, but they’re the only Missouri Pacific locomotives built after the 1910’s or so that wore 6 chimes, from what I can find.
April 27, 2021 at 1:49 am #10132rosalindeParticipant@Patrick wrote:
Single bell whistle. On the Mopac, only on the oldest engines although I think I saw a 4-8-0 with a short one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki_short_long_whistle.jpg
Three chime whistle. Most had flat tops. These were in favor until around maybe 1910. Steamboat whistles were large, very long 3 chimes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki_single_bell_chime_image.jpg
5 chime/6 chime whistle. Began to find favor after 1900. The 6 chime is usually longer to add a deeper note to the 5 chime sound; these are the “moaning” whistles. Many roads used the mellower 6 chimes for passenger engines but the MP put them on everything including switchers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki_6_chime_b.jpg
Study prototype photographs. Identify the whistle type and listen to the (admittedly model) whistle sounds on this website:
https://soundtraxx.com/reference/sound-samples/tsunami2-steam-sounds
Match the whistle type to the appropriate sound samples, there will be several. Pay no attention to the road name given, we will never know exactly how MP whistles were tuned. If you have the Tsunami2-2, Pick the one out of the appropriate type selections that you like best. No one will be able to fault you.
I’ve been reliably informed by an avid whistle collector since originally posting that Missouri Pacific’s 5 and 6 chimes were cast by MP shops and were tuned exactly the same as Nathan’s 5 and 6 chime whistles.
April 27, 2021 at 7:14 pm #10136bargetanikaParticipantDoes this whistle collector have any MP 5 chimes or 6 chimes? If so, they ought to be blown on air and recorded. Compressed air doesn’t give the same full tone as steam, but we could hear what the tuning is.
There are three or four Nathan choices in the Tsunami2-2 2200. To me, whistles 37 and 38, Nathan 5 chimes, sound too deep toned for 5 chimes, may have been recorded on low pressure, but they sound like 6 chimes to me. 39 is a nicely tuned 5 chime.
I also really like numbers 66 and 67, the Frisco 6 chime, and use them on my MP engines all the time. But I also use nearly all the 5 chime and 6 chime choices at times.
April 27, 2021 at 7:36 pm #10137bargetanikaParticipantWhen I was little, both the T&NO and the MP back home in new Iberia LA were still in steam, the MP till 1954 I think and the T&NO till late 1956. We lived equidistant from each line so I know I heard each railroad, and I remember the sounds quite well. I heard mostly high pitched 5 chimes but do recall a couple of 6 chimes.
The 5 chime sounds I heard were mostly pretty close to number 45 on the TSU 2200, oddly called a Reading 6 chime, but whistle 19, a D&RGW 5 chime, is almost identical. Whistles 37 and 38, called Nathan 5 chimes, actually resemble the deep toned 6 chimes I heard in the night.
There’s no telling which railroad these sounds came from. But even at that age I was paying a lot of attention to trains, so there’s some chance thst MP
engines were in the mix.April 28, 2021 at 1:56 am #10140rosalindeParticipantHere’s a recording of a Nathan 5 chime: http://rizzolilocomotiveworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Nathan-5-Chime.mp3
And here’s a recording of a Nathan 6 chime: http://rizzolilocomotiveworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Nathan-6-Chime.mp3
They’re not MP originals, but considering MP cloned Nathan’s designs, the difference in sound is negligible, if not non-existent.
April 28, 2021 at 4:17 pm #10143bargetanikaParticipantThe Tsunami2-2 matches for those are 39, the Nathan 5 chime and 76, the replica long bell 6 chime.
66/67, the Frisco 6 chimes, are similar to the rizzoli 5 chime.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Wiki_6_chime_b.jpg
I don’t think the two rizzoli sound samples for 5 chime and 6 chime were the only sounds on the MP. Studying photographs reveals diversified heights of these multi cell whistles, meaning variations in pitch even if the relative tuning stayed the same.
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