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November 9, 2021 at 5:43 pm #6557Daniel DeckerParticipant
looking to model the ford fast and csp trains in 1980 to 82 on the kc to pueblo line. hoping there might be someone on here that could possibly have and post some train list for both trains. would the 86ft MP auto parts boxcar as done by Tangent be a car
you would have seen on the FFT between kc and pueblo does anyone know? hoping answer is yes as I have 6 of them now.November 10, 2021 at 3:40 pm #10370Bud MossParticipantI don’t have paper data you need, but having seen the trains in person, the answer to the use of the Tangent automobile parts cars is a resounding yes. Jerry Michels
November 10, 2021 at 4:12 pm #10371Daniel DeckerParticipantthank you for the MP 86ft boxcar on the FFT west of kc confirmation Jerry. have some of tangents pc, DTI and SOU 86 footers already and know those would be seen on it having looked at a NW train list on another site. now tangent needs to do a NW 86 footer as well. another question for you Jerry or anyone else too that would know. was the CSP like a H or M class every type of car on it freight train like where I work at the BNSF or would it be usually more of a certain type of car or not?
john diamond
November 10, 2021 at 4:13 pm #10372Daniel DeckerParticipantthank you for the MP 86ft boxcar on the FFT west of kc confirmation Jerry. have some of tangents pc, DTI and SOU 86 footers already and know those would be seen on it having looked at a NW train list on another site. now tangent needs to do a NW 86 footer as well. another question for you Jerry or anyone else too that would know. was the CSP like a H or M class every type of car on it freight train like where I work at the BNSF or would it be usually more of a certain type of car or not?
john diamond
November 11, 2021 at 2:55 pm #10375Bud MossParticipantTo the best of my knowledge, the CSP carried a mix of freight while the FFT was more dedicated to auto parts. Keep in mind that a designation such as CSP did not confer special status, but it was listed separately in the system ETTs so it had recognition over the normal trains which we all extras and did have an assigned schedule. However, the railroad ran its trains as needed and the CSP did not run on its schedule very often. The FFT on the other hand was a specials effort. Have you read the Eagle article from years back on the FFT? Jerry
November 13, 2021 at 4:55 pm #10380Daniel DeckerParticipantI was at the convention this year Jerry and picked up that back issue on the FFT. interesting but not that helpful from a modeling perspective. Another question for everyone that would know. What type of trains would you have seen passing thru Horace around 80 to 83 running as extras? Coal trains off the DRGW be one of them?
November 14, 2021 at 1:09 am #10381Dennis FairclothParticipantUnfortunately, train lists seemed to be thrown out faster than any other type of paperwork. I have attached the only list we have in the archives for FFT from April 1981. Someone scribbled “not much of an auto train” at the bottom of the list, as half the train was non-Ford fill traffic for DRGW at Pueblo. The CSP and FFT history gets pretty muddied in the early 80s, as MP’s blocking instructions allowed FFT to be filled with non-Ford traffic on certain days, and after the July 1981 retooling shutdown at Milpitas, the MP started originating “their” FFT at St Louis and adding the N&W traffic at KC. CSP also handled Ford parts from connections at the St Louis gateway and would set them out somewhere between Leeds, MO, and Hope, KS, for the FFT.
Coal traffic thru Horace in the early 80s, all off the DRGW, would have been:
CUM/CMU – Mississippi Power Daniels plant via Memphis/ICG
CUS/CSU – Illinois Power, Federal plant (Alton, IL)
CUI/CIU – American Electric Power, Metropolis, IL
CUO/COU – Union Electric Labadie, MO plantOther bulk traffic were grain trains symbolled GUx where “G” for grain, “U” was the Kansas Division code, and then destinations like H=Houston, N=New Orleans, etc. Also occasional welded rail trains from CF&I in Pueblo.
November 14, 2021 at 5:13 pm #10382Bud MossParticipantI realize this isn’t the information you are looking for, but until you can unearth hard data, it would be accurate to run D&RGW/SP unit coal trains, grain train, autoparts trains and mixed manifests. This was not a heavily trafficked line in the 1980s Almost all trains were run as needed. For example, during harvest you’d expect there to be unit grain extras along with smaller trains serving the branch elevators. Seems to me that any prototype cars with build and repack date from 1975-1983 would be appropriate for a 1983 layout. Looking t industries along the line in the 1970-80s era might be helpful deciding on local trains. Jerry
November 14, 2021 at 5:23 pm #10383peggyrothschildParticipantThere was a local between Hoisington and Horace that switched the local industries. Also the KP (Kansas City – Pueblo) and its counterpart the PK that were called the ‘long-barrel’ locals.
November 15, 2021 at 7:19 pm #10386Daniel DeckerParticipantThank you for the additional info Ted, especially the train list. On the list do you know what type of car lines 1, 9, 16, 17 and 28 would have been? Guessing boxcar load of batteries for 28. Guess as to what railroads the auto racks would be from? Of the 4 coal trains aside from the CUO would the others have been DRGW hoppers and power do you know? Thanks again for the info so far.
john diamond
November 16, 2021 at 12:06 am #10387Dennis FairclothParticipantReferring to the FFT train list, car 1 was a caboose. The train list has cars listed counting forward from the caboose.
Car 9 was an equipped gondola, meaning it had fixed cradles or other devices to hold specific types of loads.
Car 16 was a damage-free (DF) boxcar
Car 17 was a boxcar equipped with load dividers
Car 28 another DF boxcar, probably loaded with batteries.As for the unit coal trains, I have notes on reporting marks. You will have to do some internet searching for possible car types and series, however, we are well before the era of aluminum cars.
CUM/CMU – Mississippi Power Daniels plant via Memphis/ICG DEGX markings, bottom dump
CUS/CSU – Illinois Power, Federal plant (Alton, IL) mix of MP and DRGW bottom dump hoppers
CUI/CIU – American Electric Power, Metropolis, IL AEPX markings, I don’t have other info
CUO/COU – Union Electric Labadie, MO plant cars marked UCEX and AMAX. Ortner 5-bay rapid dischargeI do not know of a way to determine whose racks were on the various TTX cars.
November 24, 2021 at 8:44 pm #10396Daniel DeckerParticipantHi Ted
Just realized today you had answered the trainlist questions I had for you so thank you for that additional info and also the additional coal train info. I have enough layout space I can do an exact replica of that specific FFT the list is of.
John diamond
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