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benjamintickell53Participant
Bill,
The “History of Lines” ledgers are located at the Newberry Library in Chicago, along with a wealth of other Pullman information. These documents provide information about when specific lines were started, stopped or rerouted. Sometimes, but not always, the pages indicate the type of Pullman car assigned, and only rarely was the actual car name indicated. The specific car assignments could be found in documents produced for each railroad 2-4 times a year by D.R. Culver, Pullman Company’s Superintendent of Transportation. Possibly the Katy Historical Society has some of these Culver documents – I do not have any.I do have some notes on Katy “History of Lines” data (recognizing that its heresy to admit such on a MP forum, LOL.) If you have a specific question, let me know and I might be able to help.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantSweatshirt is a good idea for wintertime, and this is a classy design. The 2016 convention T-shirt really turned out well – thanks to those involved in designing and producing it.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantPassenger train consists from March-October period of 1959 show Fir Terrace and Fir Forest as the cars assigned to trains 9-10. Is there any evidence that they received Eagle colors, or were they likely operated in Pullman’s standard two-tone grey?
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantReally looks good in that new paint!
Bill
benjamintickell53ParticipantNice photo coverage. Great convention as always, and a good turnout again this year. For those who have not or are not attending, you really should “mark off” for Columbus Day weekend next year – these are well worth the time. Thanks to all of those who handled the labor intensive, time consuming behind the scenes arrangements which make these events happen.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantSorry… I meant to include that in the original msg… 7001 was pulling the all HW train. This would have been before “The Eagle” (Missouri River Eagle) began operation. 7000 and 7001 were delivered October 22, 1939 and were put into service on existing passenger trains (the first being on the “River Line” passenger train from St. Louis to Kansas City.) They were later assigned to trains 5-6, Kay-See Flyer, which would become the Eagle. The Eagle began operating March 10, 1940, so for this particular instance, Oct 1939-March 1940 would be the “window of opportunity” to see a streamlined diesel pulling heavyweight cars. I feel sure it happened on other parts of the railroad. Photos exist showing the Sunshine Special with diesels and a mostly HW green consist with a few Eagle painted cars.
Bill Pollard[attachment=0:silbajrp]Kay-See-Flyer-2-2-1940_0001.jpg[/attachment:silbajrp]
benjamintickell53ParticipantTim,
It happened both ways, but as you note, the “window of opportunity” was fairly small. I have a photo of Train 15, Kay-See Flyer, leaving STL 2-2-1940 with a string of all heavyweight, all “Pullman” green cars (will appear in my presentation in Jeff City in a few weeks if you are attending.) There are quite a few photos of steam pulling mixed consists, some green, some Eagle colors.
Bill Pollardbenjamintickell53ParticipantWhen did C&EI 84 (MP 1776 2nd) lose its torpedo tubes on the roof? Was that done at the time it was rebuilt as 1776, or had they come off earlier?
Bill, thanks for posting the diagrams of the units. I hope that those can be digitized as part of the MPHS archives.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantDoes anyone have drawings of the lettering on these bicentennial locomotives? They were painted at North Little Rock, but one report suggests that the detailed lettering was handled by an outside contractor for Baird Signs in Little Rock. Can anyone provide additional information on how this design was developed and who might have been involved in the lettering?
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantNever say never, but on the trains south from St. Louis, I do not recall seeing N&W equipment in the 1960s. Its possible that the trains west, particularly the overnight mail train, might have carried N&W cars on a more regular basis, but if so, I wonder why they would not have been routed over the former Wabash line rather than MoP?
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantReally nice job on the scratchbuilding project. Congrats on the contest award.
benjamintickell53ParticipantThere was and is an art to getting a good clean impression from a wax seal. Those fortunate enough to have a torch, wax and seal can attest to the issues involved, ranging from wax that is too hot, not enough wax on the paper, wax sticking in the letters of the seal, etc. Back in the day, it wasn’t necessary to produce a “perfect” impression such as was achieved in this case – it was only necessary to get a sufficient imprint to identify the originating station. I’ve seen as many as four wax seals from a single station, although its likely than not all four were in use at the same time. For MP stations, one seal would have the name of the railroad and the name of the station, another version might have the railroad name and only the station number, yet another would have the name and station for the express company, and yet another would be a “public” seal, usually used by the public when sealing valuables for shipment by registered express.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantThey really serve two different purposes. Facebook is a conversation, here today, gone tomorrow. This forum is a serious effort to preserve exchanges between people who are interested in, or who have information to share about Missouri Pacific and related companies. In terms of volume of posts, you would see more on Facebook. Recently, the most active MP facebook site splintered into two groups, so its even more difficult to keep up. However, with that volume of posts comes the near impossibility of retrieving past posts. If you see a photo of interest, or read an exchange with good information on Facebook, you better save it then as an image and a text document, because as time goes on, it will become buried with newer posts, and the Facebook search function, such as it is, probably cannot find it.
Its relatively easy to transfer good information from Facebook to a much more permanent thread on this MPHS forum. In the same light, use of the Yahoo group also puts information in an area where it cannot readily be retrieved in the future. Try going to the MP yahoo group and searching for information from 2008 or so. Its almost impossible, and scrolling through the posts is often not functional either.
Bill Pollard
March 5, 2016 at 2:58 pm in reply to: Missouri Pacific 1944 fantasy calendar based on the 1948 original #7836benjamintickell53ParticipantThese reproduction calendars continue to appear on ebay, with minimum bids of anywhere from 99 cents to 200 dollars. The artwork on the reproduction is very nice, and if you purchase one in the $5 to $10 range, it is a reasonable alternative to the original calendar if you are just interested in the artwork. The reproduction calendars being sold for $150 or $200 are grossly misrepresented as originals. Frequently the REAL perpetual calendars can be purchased for less than those prices. Don’t be fooled by dealers who are either ignorant of their stock or deliberately misleading.
[attachment=1:2re8o0s6]repro-1.jpg[/attachment:2re8o0s6]
[attachment=0:2re8o0s6]original.jpg[/attachment:2re8o0s6]
The artwork on the reproduction is remarkably good, but it is still a fake. The original, in addition to the obvious cardboard date cards, is beveled around the border and has a cardboard backing. These were manufactured by the Donaldson Art Sign Co. in Covington, KY. The reproduction has a rolled metal border and no cardboard backing.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantHere are some examples to consider (all die images have been reversed for easier viewing):
[attachment=2:3nbhmznz]Conway.jpg[/attachment:3nbhmznz] [attachment=1:3nbhmznz]memphis.jpg[/attachment:3nbhmznz] [attachment=0:3nbhmznz]tower-grove.jpg[/attachment:3nbhmznz]
The Conway die is known to be original, down to the ink and gunk that often clogged these dies. The Memphis die has identical font size and machine marks on the side of the die, but is so new as to appear unused. Keep in mind that this die would have been manufactured no later than 1980 and probably a decade earlier. Ultrasonic cleaning could have removed the gunk and the brass patina, but there is very little evidence that this die was “hammered” by dating tickets, waybills or other forms. At this point, the determination about the Memphis die remains a matter of discussion, although if it is a reproduction, it is a near perfect replication. The Tower Grove die is obviously a fake — the uniform font size is the first red flag, compared to Missouri Pacific’s standard design, and the wording is also not standard.If others have information about any of these die styles, please post.
Bill Pollard
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