[benjamintickell53]

We now have an example of the blue cover system timetable #1. This was a most attractive variation, but certainly not worth much in terms of visibility when being used to pass hand signals. If you have examples of other cover variations, or other MP system timetable numbers with non-orange covers, please post the information here.

Bill Pollard

[attachment=0:156yr7hx]ETT-1.jpg[/attachment:156yr7hx]

[benjamintickell53]

Per December 2018 discussions in the Missouri Pacific Fanpage (Facebook), there are actually 2 versions of the half pint, 2 versions of the embossed 1/3 quart and 4 versions of the embossed quart bottle. Thanks to Mike Osman for this additional information and photographs.

Bill Pollard

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For the one-half pint size, there are two known variations. The lettering on the bottle is the same with each, but one bottle shape is slightly shorter. This is the only size with red printed lettering, the other two sizes of milk bottles have embossed lettering only. Beware of counterfeit copies of the one-half pint size; a fake version with only the Buzzsaw and another fake version with Buzzsaw and “Property of MoPac RR” have been reported.

[attachment=4:1paz173e]MP-1-2 pint-1.jpg[/attachment:1paz173e]

[attachment=3:1paz173e]stubby-neck-w.jpg[/attachment:1paz173e]

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The one-third pint size comes in two known variations. The variation shown at left below is embossed on one side with the Missouri Pacific Lines buzzsaw (approximately 2 inches diameter), and on the other side “Bottled on Ben Bush Farm for Missouri Pacific Lines.” The bottle on right, presumably an older variation, has a buzzsaw outline on one side with BenBush vertically and horizontally in the buzzsaw. Surrounding this is embossed “Missouri Pacific Dining Car Service.”

[attachment=2:1paz173e]one-third-w.jpg[/attachment:1paz173e]

[attachment=0:1paz173e]one-third-ben-bush-closeup-w.jpg[/attachment:1paz173e]

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The one quart milk bottle comes in four known varieties. The variation shown at lower left is embossed with a 2 3/4″ Missouri Pacific Lines buzzsaw and “One Quart Liquid.” There is no dairy identifying mark. The bottle was manufactured by Duraglas with 18 <> 46 and the Duraglas name embossed on the base. The variation shown at lower right has text embossing “Bottled on Ben Bush Farm for Missouri Pacific Lines.” There is no Buzzsaw or other mark on the reverse side.

[attachment=1:1paz173e]quart-bottle-variations,-2-of-4-w.jpg[/attachment:1paz173e]

A third variety is marked like the one-third quart bottle, with a buzzsaw outline on one side with BenBush vertically and horizontally in the buzzsaw. Surrounding this is embossed “Missouri Pacific Dining Car Service.”

The fourth variety of quart milk bottle is embossed for Sunnymeade Farm. (No image available.)

[benjamintickell53]

Why not post a sample drawing (from archives) of a few of the depots that are appropriate for this project (size, frame construction etc.) and see which version has the most interest.

Bill Pollard

[benjamintickell53]

The only heavyweights that I have seen are the ones now in museums, and they are painted Pullman green outside and in the vestibule area.

Bill Pollard

[benjamintickell53]

More information continues to gradually surface on MP service plates. Concerning the Texas plates in general. there seems to be a number of plates which were purchased in 1947, but I have also seen one example which was purchased in 1946 or earlier. The Texas plates were produced by rotating the decal on the border of the plate so that Texas was at the top, all state flowers maintained their prior relationship to adjacent flowers, so this was not a new decal, just positioned differently.

The Texas Eagle started in August 1948, and the diesel service plates did not arrive until circa August 1949, per a brief note in the August 1949 MP Magazine. Therefore, were the 1947 “Texas” plates ordered for the Texas Eagle? Anecdotal information continues to suggest that these Texas plates were first ordered for the Texas Centennial in 1936. Does anyone have any information or photos which confirm that possibility? Does anyone have a Texas plate which is backstamped for Texas & Pacific or, more unlikely, front marked under the steam locomotive with Texas & Pacific Railway replacing Missouri Pacific Lines?

One of the china books (McIntyre) states that the Texas plates lacked the outside pinstripes. Possibly so on some batch, but the only ones I have seen do have the outside pinstripes, basically the same as the plates with Missouri on the top. If you have a Texas plate, please take a look at the back and report the date code here (we can decipher the date code if you do not have a Syracuse China reference). Perhaps if we get a larger sample size of these plates, some of these mysteries can be solved.

Bill Pollard

[attachment=1:2h8i6qgh]Texas-1.jpg[/attachment:2h8i6qgh]

[attachment=0:2h8i6qgh]2-codes.jpg[/attachment:2h8i6qgh]

[benjamintickell53]

I agree with Jim, museums who sell historic equipment for scrap rather than exhausting EVERY effort to find a more suitable home do not deserve further monetary support. This Iron Mountain crane is another example of equipment migrating far out of its area, having no great significance in its new area, and being summarily discarded or set aside when interest wanes. Its a difficult situation because almost all rail museums have too much equipment to properly maintain, too little funding and a diminishing base of volunteers. Mid-Continent does a lot of good, but they also sold off W&OV 1 to nothing more than static display, and D&R 9 languishes there in pieces even today, probably never to be restored.
Bill Pollard

[benjamintickell53]

A large volume of Mopac fantasy china has reappeared in many ebay auctions in recent months. New collectors should be aware that this china is totally a fantasy pattern, there was never any MP pattern even remotely similar to this for either dining car use or advertising pieces. Prices on ebay range from $10-15 to $40-50, often depending on whether or not the dealer identifies this as a reproduction. Most would define “reproduction” as a replica of an existing pattern, such as has been done with B&O centennial china, UP Winged streamliner, Santa Fe Mimbreno, Fred Harvey Blue Chain, MKT Bluebonnet and a number of other legitimate china patterns. These pieces do not rise even to the level of a reproduction… be aware and pay accordingly if you decide to add these to your collection as novelty items. Note that the underneath has no backstamp of manufacturer, which itself can be another clue of recent vintage fantasy patterns.

[attachment=3:3hywegnz]4-w.jpg[/attachment:3hywegnz]
[attachment=2:3hywegnz]6-w.jpg[/attachment:3hywegnz]

The most common patterns of true Missouri Pacific dining car china likely to be encountered on ebay or elsewhere include the Eagle pattern and the St. Albans pattern. Eagle is defined as being railroad issue, the top-mark Eagle logo is sufficient proof, although some pieces are also backstamped with Missouri Pacific or Texas & Pacific identification. St. Albans was a stock pattern, sold by Syracuse china to many different commercial establishments. Only patterns backstamped Missouri Pacific can be confirmed as having had railroad use. Other unmarked pieces will match nicely for a display (or even occasional use) but collectors should expect to pay substantially less for unmarked, stock pieces.

[attachment=1:3hywegnz]Eagle-sample-w.jpg[/attachment:3hywegnz]
[attachment=0:3hywegnz]St-albans-sample.jpg[/attachment:3hywegnz]

Bill Pollard

[benjamintickell53]

The owners of Leslie depot understand its importance, and would like to see the building taken over by the City of Leslie, from what I understand, but the question of liability, money for reestoration, etc., is a big concern.

[benjamintickell53]

Ron,
I don’t think so… the Pullman History of Lines documents indicate that Pullman line 3744 provided the last Wichita to Denver sleeper service.

Pullman line 3744 was inaugurated June 1, 1940, operating Denver-Little Rock. It was shortened to Denver-Wichita on November 15, 1941. Lightweight cars were assigned to this route on September 1, 1956. As you noted, 6-6-4 cars were assigned for almost all of the time period that this line used lightweight cars. Pullman line 3744 was discontinued with the arrival of last cars in destination terminals on March 1, 1961.

Bill Pollard

[benjamintickell53]

When I access the forum from the main menu, the format is scrambled in some fields. I know that there is a direct link to the forum that bypasses the main menu and results in a forum “page” that is wide enough to not scramble fields.

Can you post that link somewhere obvious, so it is available when people are trying to read the forum from some computer other than their own machine (which presumably would have the link bookmarked)?

Thanks,
Bill Pollard

[benjamintickell53]

Additional operating details gleaned from Arkansas Division Special Instructions #3 (3-17-1935) and #6 (1-1-1941).

Operation by signal indication: Trains and engines will operate both with and against current of traffic by block signals, the indications of which will supersede timetable superiority and take the place of train orders.

Clearance Card Form C delivered to southward trains at any point North Little Rock to Benton, inclusive, will be authority to assume its schedule from QQ Tower.

PP Switch/QQ Tower: A siding, capacity 238 cars, extends between PP Switch and QQ Tower. Switch at south end is No. 20 turnout, 50 feet north of train order signal at QQ Tower, and is interlocked and operated by Towerman.

Flashing Light Train Order Signals: Train order signals located at HH Tower, Hot Springs Junction and QQ Tower are equipped with flashing light signals to distinguish them from other signals. (By the time of Spl Instr #6, both Hot Springs Junction and QQ Tower had been removed from this list.)

Train Order Delivery Devices: At Hot Springs Junction, located across from tower. [Thus there must have been an actual tower at this point.]

[benjamintickell53]

Jerry,
I have questions about the “orders” that are not in the form of orders, particularly the one from QQ tower changing the number of locomotive on the original order, and the original order was a meet order. That seemed particularly “outside the rule book.” I was hoping that some former dispatchers would provide guidance here. Another that I questioned was the note advising 2nd #8 to take siding at Gurdon and call DS at the north end of the siding (Smithton).

As for the orders themselves, I had been given this stash a few years ago and thumbed through noting “old orders”. It wasn’t until I was looking for the orders from QQ Tower, perhaps the rarest in the bunch, that I realized these orders were actually for two trips. Its rare to find this kind of train order virtually complete trip coverage, so I though that it definitely needed to be shared digitally. Glad that you enjoyed it… I’m not sure that many are into this level of “getting down in the weeds” looking for details on a topic.

Bill

[benjamintickell53]

A question was asked on Facebook whether QQ in the QQ tower name referred to a telegraph call. No… the letter designations extended down the railroad covering junctions (transitions from single to double track, etc.) and interlocking plants. More research is needed to determine when MP implemented this naming system, but a dispatcher sheet from 1940 provides the actual telegraph calls in use at the time.

[attachment=0:ajbw4cc1]telegraph-calls.jpg[/attachment:ajbw4cc1]

[benjamintickell53]

[attachment=3:3vzssbna]MVN-1936_clearance.jpg[/attachment:3vzssbna][attachment=5:3vzssbna]MVN-1936_78.jpg[/attachment:3vzssbna][attachment=4:3vzssbna]MVN-1936_88.jpg[/attachment:3vzssbna]
[attachment=0:3vzssbna]ARK_clearance.jpg[/attachment:3vzssbna][attachment=2:3vzssbna]ARK_99.jpg[/attachment:3vzssbna][attachment=1:3vzssbna]ARK_100.jpg[/attachment:3vzssbna]

[benjamintickell53]

[attachment=6:jjiwpwzw]Gurdon_370.jpg[/attachment:jjiwpwzw][attachment=5:jjiwpwzw]Gurdon_604.jpg[/attachment:jjiwpwzw]
[attachment=3:jjiwpwzw]Prescott_clearance.jpg[/attachment:jjiwpwzw][attachment=4:jjiwpwzw]Prescott_375.jpg[/attachment:jjiwpwzw]
[attachment=0:jjiwpwzw]Fulton_clearance.jpg[/attachment:jjiwpwzw][attachment=2:jjiwpwzw]Fulton_381.jpg[/attachment:jjiwpwzw][attachment=1:jjiwpwzw]Fulton_382.jpg[/attachment:jjiwpwzw]

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