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benjamintickell53Participant
Train 117 actually connected to train 17 at Little Rock. Train 817 was the designation from Benton to Hot Springs, once the train left the mainline and was on the Hot Springs branch. That 20 minute connection might seem risky (at least by today’s Amtrak standards which require at least an hour), but No. 117 was carrying a Kansas City-Hot Springs Pullman which was also switched from one train to the other at Little Rock during that short period, so the expectation was that No. 117 would indeed arrive on time.
Bill
PS – Train 17 was the Hot Springs Special, St. Louis to Hot Springs, one of the “hotter” trains on the railroad in the days prior to the Eagles.
benjamintickell53ParticipantIn 1933, several options were available, most were not particularly useful and no really direct rail service.
(1) Midland Valley #2 (motor car), Lv Tulsa 4:00pm, Av Ft Smith 1010pm. MP #117 Lv Ft Smith 304am, arrive Little Rock 805am(2)MKT #221 Lv Tulsa 545pm, av Muskogee 715pm. MKT #7 Lv Muskogee 1am, av McAlester 235am, no connection on RI until 823pm next evening.
(3) drive from Tulsa to Claremore (33 miles), MP #115 Lv Claremore 638am, av Little Rock 250pm or MP #117 Lv Claremore 1215am, av LR 805am.
(4) multiple schedules, Santa Fe Trailways (bus) Tulsa to Fort Smith (about 4.5 hours) and multiple connecting schedules Missouri Pacific Trailways Fort Smith to Little Rock.
Hope that helps,
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantHere are a few other museum suggestions along the way (depending on your route to Austin).
Museum of the American Railroad – Frisco TX (has former MP slumbercoach and numerous other streamlined and heavyweight passenger cars) http://www.museumoftheamericanrailroad.org/
T&P Museum – Marshall TX (in former T&P depot) https://www.facebook.com/Marshall.Depot/ and http://marshalltxdepot.com/
Mineola TX Historical Museum (many T&P related exhibits in this former T&P crew change point. Also check out the restored T&P depot, which has a small rail museum and is also the Amtrak station.) https://mineolahistoricalmuseum.com/
Temple TX Rail and Heritage Museum (in former ATSF depot, with some preserved rolling stock) http://www.templerrhm.org/
New Braunfels Railroad Museum (in former IGN station) http://newbraunfelsrailroadmuseum.org/nbrr/
Rockdale TX I&GN Depot Museum https://www.rockdaledepot.com/depot.html
Bullock Texas History Museum in Austin – fun for the family if you are looking for a non-rail alternative https://www.thestoryoftexas.com/
For anyone going to Fredericksburg, US 290 west from Austin is the more direct route. Just west of Austin on 290, a number of passenger cars and several old depots have been relocated to the north side of the highway. The Texas Zephyr round-end observation car is most prominent. This is all private property, but has been redeveloped for commercial use (shops, etc.) and I’ve never had any problem stopping to take photographs.
http://www.texascompound.com/read-me-avenue/Bill Pollard
PS – If you have any interest in World War II, the Pacific War Museum in Fredericksburg, mentioned by Charlie, is highly recommended. Fredericksburg also has shopping and restaurants along the main street which make it a nice family destination for those who haven’t succumbed to exclusive rail interests.
benjamintickell53ParticipantThat was my experience on other railroads also… stairway to the rear which meant short end of the car forward. Its a little irritating that a $100 car has the seating backward. Of course, its no doubt possible to dissect the car and rearrange things, but at that price, it shouldn’t be necessary.
Bill
benjamintickell53ParticipantEarly Gulf Coast Lines dining car service is a challenge to today’s railroad historian. The June 1916 Official Guide Gulf Coast Lines entry does not mention cafe-observation cars on trains 3-4 between New Orleans and Houston. However, the GCL undated timetable (but with notice advising change of New Orleans station effective June 1, 1916), does list cafe-observation cars on trains 3-4, with the notation that dining service is under the direction of Hotel Grunewald Catering Department. The Nov 1917 Official Guide entry similarly mentions Grunewald Catering. The January 1920 Official Guide, with the railroad now under USRA control, still shows cafe-observation cars but does not indicate whether food service was being handled by the railroad or under outside contract. The 1923 Guide likewise continues to show cafe-obs cars but does not indicate any catering arrangements or whether cars were being staffed by the railroad.
[attachment=0:1ccrder1]0896.pdf[/attachment:1ccrder1]
For those unfamiliar, the Hotel Grunewald was built in 1893, owned by Louis Grunewald, a German immigrant. After various expansions, the hotel was purchased by a group of New Orleans investors and renamed the Roosevelt Hotel in 1923.
[attachment=2:1ccrder1]1.jpg[/attachment:1ccrder1]
[attachment=1:1ccrder1]a3.jpg[/attachment:1ccrder1]
There is some speculation that this Hotel Grunewald Catering china was the original china used on the GCL cafe-observation cars when the cafe service first opened, with the Gulf Coast Lines china coming later, perhaps during or after the period of USRA operation.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantYears ago, MP Little Rock restaurant operator Wylie Cavin (himself a former MP dining car inspector) had a large collection of this silver. Markings that he had included “MISSOURI PACIFIC”, “I.& G.N.” and “MO. PAC. & IRON MOUNTAIN.” I have heard that the pattern also came marked for T&P Ry, but I’ve never actually seen that variation so cannot confirm with certainty that it exists.
This “pagoda style” pattern probably existed for all standard shapes, but is known for certain to exist in the following shapes:
3 oz sauce boat
6 oz creamer with lid
6 oz and 9 oz sugarbowl with lid
8 oz and 10 oz teapot
12 oz soup terrine
butter dish with ice compartment
scalloped mint (?) dishBill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantCharlie,
I had a crank on each of my M9 motorcars, but we almost NEVER started them with a crank. If they backfired, it could break your arm if you lost your grip on the crank, or so I was told. We always push started the car.The photos of Mopac M9 C-6364 were taken on April 22, 1989 on the Clarksville AR branch, possibly the last run of a “rail” vehicle over the line. This line had been officially abandoned in late 1988, and a rail had been pulled at Clarksville Junction in January 1989, effectively isolating the 8.1 mile line and precluding any train movement over the line. A group bid on the line with a proposal to continue freight operation and a tourist train, but an out of state scrapper had a higher bid and was awarded the contract to remove the line. Scrapping operations began in May 1989.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=2:24r3pw4c]Clarksville-4-22-1989_0001-WL.jpg[/attachment:24r3pw4c]
[attachment=1:24r3pw4c]Clarksville-4-22-1989_0002-WL.jpg[/attachment:24r3pw4c]
[attachment=0:24r3pw4c]Clarksville-4-22-1989_0003-WL.jpg[/attachment:24r3pw4c]
benjamintickell53ParticipantLooks like a MT-19, the Onan powered version of the M-19. Nice motor car, but really too heavy for one man handling. Are you planning to restore it for operation or static display? Of course, the purists among us would argue that any “true” motorcar should have a single cylinder Fairmont engine. Comparing a Fairmont engine to an Onan is like comparing a steam locomotive to a Volkswagen beetle; one is temperamental as hell, requires the operator to be constantly listening to the engine exhaust to adjust the timer to the speed, etc., while the other is “just an engine”.
In 1991, when I was in the midst of motor car restorations myself, I condensed notes from several Missouri Pacific circa 1946 track motor car files which had previously been preserved by “dumpster diving” at Little Rock Union Station. The digital file seems to have disappeared over the years, but a hard copy remains – dot matrix printer, no less. A PDF file of that document is attached.
Despite my tongue in cheek discussion of Onan power, I may have a Fairmont maintenance book for a MT-19. If you need a copy, let me know.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=0:3k42otdw]MP-Motorcar-Trivia-1946.pdf[/attachment:3k42otdw]
benjamintickell53ParticipantSome of the Spadra mines were open into the early 1960s. I visited the depot there shortly before it was razed about 1965, and the coal loading facilities were still present.
benjamintickell53ParticipantThe published information (which is on line) is only a small fraction of the entire valuation file. To my knowledge, there are no valuation maps on line, and likewise no on line listing for equipment inventory, etc. To retrieve the maps when visiting the National Archives, you need to know the valuation section itself. It would be a worthwhile project for MPHS to compile the valuation section lists for each state. The Arkansas valuation sections are listed below as an example of the numbering format.
Arkansas valuation sections for Missouri Pacific (similar numbering systems exist for each MP served state)
1AB-Arkansas Ark-Mo line (Corning) to Texarkana
2AB-Arkansas Knobel-Wynne-Helena-McGehee
3A-Arkansas Bald Knob-West Memphis
4-Arkansas West Memphis-Helena-Marianna
5AB-Arkansas Helena-Clarendon and Pine City Junction to Brinkley
6ABC-Arkansas Diaz to Cricket and Cushman branch
7ABC-Arkansas North Little Rock-Van Buren
7D-Arkansas Little Rock area ???
8AB-Arkansas Fort Smith-Greenwood
8C-Arkansas Fort Smith-Paris (Arkansas Central)
9AB-Arkansas Little Rock-Pine Bluff-McGehee-Wilmot
10ABC-Arkansas Arkla-Eudora; Trippe Jct.-Arkansas City
11-Arkansas Baxter-Colliers
12-Arkansas Thebes-Montrose-Hamburg-Snyder-Crossett
13ABC-Arkansas Hardin-Prague-Benton-Hot Springs
14ABC-Arkansas Gurdon-Burtsell-Okolona-Caddo Gap-Womble
15ABC-Arkansas Gurdon-Reader-El Dorado-Felsenthal-Huttig
16-Arkansas Hope-Nashville
20A-Arkansas Barham-Military Junction
20B-Arkansas Camp Pike (North Little Rock)
24-Arkansas Hot Springs (former MD&G trackage, structures purchased 1928)The published text of the MP valuation was indeed Valuation Docket 1006, Volume 40V page 249. This was after the Valuation Dockets began to be published in a separate valuation series, rather than in the ICC Reports number series. Valuation volumes starting with the 22nd one were split out into this separate series. The Valuation series, including volume 40, can be found at https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/003919131?type%5B%5D=subject&lookfor%5B%5D=%22%20Railroads%20Valuation%22&ft=
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantTwo photos of MP passenger (motor) trains at Topeka, from the collection of Tony Fey. The first photo was taken by William Gipson Sr, train 642, in the winter of 1927-1928. The second photo was taken by Ray Hilner, also train 642, on May 13,1934. The short RPO-baggage car behind the gas-electric carried the Topeka & Fort Scott RPO.
[attachment=0:19cthver]MP-TR#642-Topeka-5-1934-Ray-Hilner.jpg[/attachment:19cthver]
[attachment=1:19cthver]MP-TR#642-at-Topeka-1927-28-Wm-Gibson-Sr.jpg[/attachment:19cthver]
benjamintickell53ParticipantRailway Post Office service began as the Topeka & Fort Scott RPO on February 10, 1887. From June 16, 1892 – January 14, 1893, the route was briefly extended as the Topeka & Coffeyville RPO before being restored to its previous Fort Scott end terminal. From July 25, 1904 – April 30, 1905 the run was extended as the Topeka & Carthage RPO before again being cut back to Fort Scott. The last run of the Topeka & Fort Scott RPO was May 19, 1934.
Data from RPO Routes by State and Railroad, published by the Mobile Post Office Society.
Bill Pollard
benjamintickell53ParticipantThe Fort Scott-Lomax-Topeka segment was originally construted by the Kansas, Nebraska & Dakota Railway in 1886-1887. The abandonment between Fort Scott and Lomax was approved by the Interstate Commerce Commission in Finance Docket 9881, published in ICC Reports Volume 199 (199 ICC 363). The southern part of this line, Fort Scott to Pittsburg, remained in operation into the early 1960s or longer.
Bill Pollard
[attachment=0:a005z5wm]199-ICC-363-MP-abandonment.pdf[/attachment:a005z5wm]
benjamintickell53ParticipantThis was another of the nice series of lithograph prints that were issued by MP in the 1940s. This one did also appear on the 1943 card calendar. With this many issues, were they changed out at depots each year?
Bill Pollardbenjamintickell53ParticipantThe picture hung in many depots, and also was used on the back of some MP business cards. It is one of the more detailed publicity photos, certainly with a World War II motif. For some reason, it was not used on the 1944 or 1945 card calendars.
Bill Pollard -
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