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They really serve two different purposes. Facebook is a conversation, here today, gone tomorrow. This forum is a serious effort to preserve exchanges between people who are interested in, or who have information to share about Missouri Pacific and related companies. In terms of volume of posts, you would see more on Facebook. Recently, the most active MP facebook site splintered into two groups, so its even more difficult to keep up. However, with that volume of posts comes the near impossibility of retrieving past posts. If you see a photo of interest, or read an exchange with good information on Facebook, you better save it then as an image and a text document, because as time goes on, it will become buried with newer posts, and the Facebook search function, such as it is, probably cannot find it.
Its relatively easy to transfer good information from Facebook to a much more permanent thread on this MPHS forum. In the same light, use of the Yahoo group also puts information in an area where it cannot readily be retrieved in the future. Try going to the MP yahoo group and searching for information from 2008 or so. Its almost impossible, and scrolling through the posts is often not functional either.
Bill Pollard
March 5, 2016 at 2:58 pm in reply to: Missouri Pacific 1944 fantasy calendar based on the 1948 original #7836These reproduction calendars continue to appear on ebay, with minimum bids of anywhere from 99 cents to 200 dollars. The artwork on the reproduction is very nice, and if you purchase one in the $5 to $10 range, it is a reasonable alternative to the original calendar if you are just interested in the artwork. The reproduction calendars being sold for $150 or $200 are grossly misrepresented as originals. Frequently the REAL perpetual calendars can be purchased for less than those prices. Don’t be fooled by dealers who are either ignorant of their stock or deliberately misleading.
[attachment=1:2re8o0s6]repro-1.jpg[/attachment:2re8o0s6]
[attachment=0:2re8o0s6]original.jpg[/attachment:2re8o0s6]
The artwork on the reproduction is remarkably good, but it is still a fake. The original, in addition to the obvious cardboard date cards, is beveled around the border and has a cardboard backing. These were manufactured by the Donaldson Art Sign Co. in Covington, KY. The reproduction has a rolled metal border and no cardboard backing.
Bill Pollard
Here are some examples to consider (all die images have been reversed for easier viewing):
[attachment=2:3nbhmznz]Conway.jpg[/attachment:3nbhmznz] [attachment=1:3nbhmznz]memphis.jpg[/attachment:3nbhmznz] [attachment=0:3nbhmznz]tower-grove.jpg[/attachment:3nbhmznz]
The Conway die is known to be original, down to the ink and gunk that often clogged these dies. The Memphis die has identical font size and machine marks on the side of the die, but is so new as to appear unused. Keep in mind that this die would have been manufactured no later than 1980 and probably a decade earlier. Ultrasonic cleaning could have removed the gunk and the brass patina, but there is very little evidence that this die was “hammered” by dating tickets, waybills or other forms. At this point, the determination about the Memphis die remains a matter of discussion, although if it is a reproduction, it is a near perfect replication. The Tower Grove die is obviously a fake — the uniform font size is the first red flag, compared to Missouri Pacific’s standard design, and the wording is also not standard.If others have information about any of these die styles, please post.
Bill Pollard
Has anyone else started reading this book? I got my copy too, but have not had time to do more than glance through it. Looks like a lot of good information.
Bill Pollard
Hard to say about the three on ebay now — and there is another along with them… MP Transportation Co for Harlingen TX. I think some of these have been cleaned, either chemically or in an ultrasonic cleaner, or both. All of these came from the Egan collection, and unfortunately, the MoPac dies are among the newest looking. If they are reproduction, they are to the exact MP specifications, everything matching dies known to be legitimate in terms of font size, etc. We don’t seem to have much information on how dies were ordered by the railroad… one die at a time, or an entire group, and whether spare dies would have been kept on hand anywhere. Information from an experienced die collector would be appreciated.
Bill Pollard
No, the parlor car tariff is a single sheet, 4-panel folded, sized to fit inside the cover of the standard passenger tariff booklets issued at that time period. It covers only Memphis-Hot Springs.
Bill Pollard
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Dick,
This is what makes railroad research so “challenging” – LOL. The MPRR Local Parlor Car Tariff MH-2, parlor car seat rates between Memphis, Hot Springs and intermediate points, was effective May 1, 1956. Could they have briefly taken off the parlor car, and then restored it later?Checking the public timetables, 9 issues between 4-25-1954 and 12-16-56, all show “MoPac Parlor Car Coach Cafe,” loading number 2191 on train 219 and 2201 for train 220. The next public timetable, June 2, 1957, shows only a grill coach and coaches.
Bill Pollard
Dick,
It appears that parlor car service between Memphis and Hot Springs ended sometime in April 1957 if Official Guide listings are accurate. [Parlor service is shown in April 1957 Official Guide, but is absent in May 1957.] After that time, coaches and a grill coach (and head end cars) operated between Memphis and Little Rock, with the addition of through Pullman cars between Little Rock and Hot Springs. Several consists of trains 219 and 220 on June 16-17, 1957 show grill coach 874. My initial question presumed that this car was also providing parlor service, but it now appears that parlor car service ended prior to mid-June, and that 874 was indeed nothing more or less than a grill coach. This particular conductor started working extra-board passenger in March 1957 and received a parlor car tariff at that time; that and the parlor notation in the March 1957 Official Guide confirm that parlor service was still in place in March. Going back a couple of years, a January 1955 consist of 219 and 220 listed car 10910 in service as a cafe-parlor-coach. Do your passenger circulars provide any more specific end of parlor car service on this line?Bill Pollard
At the time, Jenks blue was seen as somewhat symbolic of Mr. Jenks himself. It was a time when there was massive change underway in the industry and in Mopac itself. D.B. Jenks had no problem cutting jobs or passenger trains, etc. and at the time when the trains were turning all blue, many other familiar traditions of the Missouri Pacific were being trashed.
In hindsight, the Jenks management team ran a tight ship, somewhat of a dictatorial or autocratic management style reminiscent of the Southern Railway during that era. Their operations compare quite favorably versus the maintenance and operating practices later put into place by the yellow railroad that succeeded them. I wasn’t much of a fan of Jenks blue in the 60s and 70s… but it definitely looks pretty good now, and it is surely easier to apply on a model than the (impossible for me) classic Eagle scheme.
Bill Pollard
Thanks very much for posting these rosters. A number of familiar names from the top of that 1972 roster bring back some good memories. I had the privilege of visiting with Eakles Hille (#2), Wayne Couch (#5) and I.I. Avance (#15) quite a few times. Hille and Avance in particular were heavy duty railroadiana collectors and would usually set up at the Arkansas Railroad Club railroadiana shows each year for a number of years. Just sitting back and listening while these guys “held court” at the show was worth the price of admission. (They were often joined by Mike Adams and a few other Arkansas division railroaders of similar “vintage”.) Several of the other engineers, such as Snodgrass, Glover and I think Walmsley (#9-10-11) worked Amtrak when the Inter-American started in March 1974. These guys started firing in steam days, top notch railroaders.
Thanks again,
Bill PollardPS – Does anyone have any Arkansas Division conductor or brakeman rosters which could be posted?
How many of those early calendar photos were also issued as MP postcards?
Bill Pollard
Eastbound from Kansas City on that date, #16 departing KC at 1130am, or #14, departing at 400pm.
Bill Pollard
The Walthers express boxcars can be seen here: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-101669
Is there much likelihood that there was an oddly painted MP express boxcar from which Walthers took their information? I’ve never seen a car with yellow dimensional lettering, but would like to think that perhaps one car got lettered not according to the paint diagram.
[attachment=0:3k5jiyn7]86172.jpg[/attachment:3k5jiyn7]
Walthers had/has similar problems with many of their Rock Island passenger cars and RI troop sleepers, which carry letterboard lettering that is significantly smaller that the prototype. Attention to detail, in a hobby when accuracy is prized, should be a given.
Bill Pollard
I didn’t realize the cars were out from Walthers… nice looking models, but its unfortunate that they didn’t get the color of dimensional data right. It seems that they are plagued by minor detail errors on many models that would have been easy to fix.
It would be nice to see these cars produced as models in their original passenger numbers. Charlie, do you have any approximate date for the two photos of the renumbered cars?
Bill Pollard
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