From Mopac Yahoo Group, September 2009

In 1948 and ’49 the SP and T&P had a through heavyweight chair car between Los Angeles and Dallas with the car being exchanged at El Paso. This car ran on T&P trains 7 & 8. Consist information from late 1949 indicates that the T&P cars used (in the majority) were numbered in the 1550 to 1563 series. I would like to model one of these but the 2004 issue of the Eagle on heavyweight cars is sold out. Could someone provide me with more information? A diagram would be especially helpful.

Thank you, Ed Grabek

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Ed,
The 2004 issue about MP heavyweight coaches published in The Eagle was strictly cars for MP and Texas/Louisiana subsidiary lines I-GN, StLB&M, and NOT&M.

T&P heavyweight steel coaches that were in service during 1948-1949 were all from two orders of heavyweight coaches built by Pullman. The first series was for 16 coaches from Pullman lot 4500, built 1-18, originally numbered 257-272, which were later renumbered 1201-1215 and 1266 circa 1930-1932. The 1201-1214 remained with these numbers to at least January 1950. The 1215 was destroyed in a fire at El Paso in 1942. The 1266 was renumbered, but I do not know the new number. Of these cars, only the original car no. 272, later 1266, could have possibly been renumbered into the 1550-1564 series.

The second series of 50 coaches was from Pullman lot 4569, built ca. 7-20, originally numbered 1216-1265, which were renumbered into the 1300s, 1500s, and 1600s sometime between 1933 and 1943. Thus, the coaches you are seeking were most likely from this group. Here’s the problem. Of these 50 cars, the T&P passenger car diagrams for cars remaining in 1963 (at the time of another renumbering program that integrated MP passenger cars with T&P passenger cars) typically only provide the previous car number. I can verify that 1216-1219 and 1221 as still having their original numbers through Jan. 1950, so these cars
were not the ones you seek. Of the remaining 45 cars, I can track only 6 cars to their new numbers per the following (all renumbered between 1933 and 1943):

1220 to 1300
1222 to 1307
1236 to 1516
1243 to 1303
1248 to 1304
1251 to 1312

That leaves 39 of the 50 cars from Pullman lot 4569 in which renumbered cars (some more than once) cannot be linked to original car numbers based on available data.

Series 1550 to 1556 appear in the September 1947 Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment (ORPTE). Series 1557 to 1564 first appear in the March 1948 issue of the ORPTE (this publication was issued in March and September from 3/43 to 9/49). The 1550-1564 were denoted as deluxe chair cars.

I can tell you that cars in series 1550-1564 (15 cars in service in March 1948) were previously numbered 1350-1357, 1359, 1361, 1500, 1502-1503, 1506, and 1508. What I cannot tell you based on the available data that I’ve located, is how the 1550-1564 series cars link to the original numbers or to the 1350-1508 numbers. For your purposes, perhaps you don’t care what the original numbers were. T&P’s constant renumbering of their coaches was to change the designation for plain coaches, divided coaches, buffet coaches, deluxe chair cars, & divided deluxe chair cars. During the 1950s the remaining cars were modernized, receiving new Thermopane windows and Texas-style roofs.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

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T&P Heavyweight Coaches 1918-1920 (Yahoo Group July 1, 2015)

In 1918 T&P bought 16 coaches from Pullman (lot 4500) originally numbered 257-272, followed in 1920 with 50 additional coaches (lot 4569) originally numbered 1216-1265. Over time, all of these cars were renumbered (some multiple times) based on different coach configurations and conversions to buffet-coach, baggage-express, and steam-generator cars.

I’ve been able to determine renumberings for most of the 1st series but no so much for the 2nd series. For the 2nd series, 5 cars (T&P 1216-1219 and 1221) kept their original numbers until being renumbered in the early 1950s.

My question pertains to most of the other 45 cars renumbered from 1936-1943 to various T&P series 1300-1314, 1320-1321, 1350-1361, 1500-1516, 1601, 1603. It’s conceivable that some cars may have been renumbered more than once during this period. Renumbered T&P 1358 was destroyed in a 1942 fire.

T&P diagrams help to identify 6 of the renumbered cars as follows:
1220 to 1300
1222 to 1307
1236 to 1516
1243 to 1303
1248 to 1304
1251 to 1312

That leaves 39 cars (1223-1235, 1237-1242, 1244-1247, 1249-1250, and 1252-1265) in which I have not been able to determine the “old” to “new” numbers that occurred between 1936 to 1943.

I will appreciate the help from group members to determine these 39 “old” to “new” numbers. Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

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