[Bill Pollard]

Gene and Jerry, sorry that you two could not make Austin, it was a very enjoyable convention and a good chance to renew acquaintances with friends. I did not make it to Austin in time to observe the board of directors meeting, so will leave that part of your question for others to comment. However, I have been part of the digital archives team for a few years, and can offer my own thoughts from that perspective.

There are logistical IT-type challenges to putting material behind a “member only” wall, as well as questions about what material should be member only, what should be accessible to the general public (to hopefully encourage MPHS membership), what postings would be of interest or benefit to most members, etc. Should the member only section be simply password protected web pages, or should it be some arrangement to allow on-demand downloads, such as is offered by some of the more advanced rail historical society archives? My sense is that MPHS continues to overcome those challenges and hopefully this coming year will see the beginning of a member only section. In the meantime, material continues to become available for scanning, often with a definite timeline before it is to be returned to the owner. With a limited number of volunteers, a lot of effort is put into getting new source material scanned, getting the resulting digital files named so they can be retrieved, etc.

While wrestling with the details of how the “member only” section should be developed, it was the consensus of the digital team (and endorsed by the board) that a number of CDs should be produced using MPHS archive material that has been digitized. The CD option makes a large volume of archival material on a specialized topic available to members relatively quickly, thus hopefully demonstrating the benefit and value of the MPHS Archives. Recent CD topics include (1)Terminals 1928-1959, (2) Accidents 1931-1960, (3) Illinois Coal Mines, (4) Passenger car Diagrams-1963-1978, and (5) Passenger car diagrams – heavyweight cars & wood cars. (The latter just became available at Austin, and will soon be added to the on-line company store.) Each of these CDs required many hours of volunteer labor to properly orient, crop and edit hundreds of images in each CD for optimum viewing.

As Jerry noted, there are always more projects available than there are volunteers.

Bill Pollard

[Bill Pollard]

@[email protected] wrote:

Was there only one “Hot Springs Special” (#17) that ran between LR and HS daily? Based on the schedule that I have, I see two arrivals into HS and two departures. The No. 219 left LR at 11:25 AM and arrived in HS at 12:45, and the #17 left at 8:25 AM and arrived in HS at 10:20. Is this information accurate?

Yes, that information is accurate. The #17 was the Hot Springs Special, with connecting service from Kansas City, etc. #219 was a Memphis-Hot Springs train.

Bill Pollard

[Bill Pollard]

In the midst of the Depression, amenities were a bit sparse. No. 117 (The Rainbow Special) carried an observation-cafe-parlor car between KC and Coffeyville, so that car would have already been removed by the time a passenger boarded at Claremore. Also carried was the KC-Hot Springs sleeper, a 12-section, 1 drawing room car — pretty standard for Pullman accommodations of that era. It also picked up another 12-1 sleeper at Fort Smith for Little Rock, but that would not have affected the Claremore passenger other than perhaps being awakened slightly when the car was switched into the train. There was no food service into Little Rock on No. 117 at this time, again thanks to the economy cutbacks of the Depression.

Once the KC-Hot Springs sleeper had been added to #17, there was a dining-lounge car in the train which operated all the way to Hot Springs, so breakfast or brunch was possible leaving Little Rock. With a 10:20am scheduled arrival in Hot Springs, I doubt that there was any early lunch service, probably just extended breakfast.

Train 17 was a train of many names and many purposes. Between St. Louis and Knobel, it was also known as the Tennessean. At Knobel, a St. Louis-Memphis sleeper, cafe-lounge and coaches were removed to continue to Memphis via Wynne. A few miles down the railroad, a Newport-Hot Springs dining lounge was added, so passengers on No. 17 could have breakfast into Little Rock, with the car continuing to Hot Springs as noted above. At Benton, all of the Hot Springs cars were removed from No. 17 to continue to the Spa city. No. 17 continued to Texarkana, and at Gurdon a Little Rock-El Dorado dining-parlor was remove for movement on train No. 847 to El Dorado. The remainder of No. 17 (now coaches and head end cars only) continued to Texarkana where it terminated. All that is of no consequence to your passenger traveling Claremore to Hot Springs, LOL, but its interesting to see how the railroad back in the day was capable of having one train serve multiple functions efficiently and in a timely manner, day after day, with multiple episodes of switching en route. Most of the time, it all worked like clockwork. Those of us dealing with today’s railroading and Amtrak can only shake our heads in amazement.

Bill

[Bill Pollard]

Train 117 actually connected to train 17 at Little Rock. Train 817 was the designation from Benton to Hot Springs, once the train left the mainline and was on the Hot Springs branch. That 20 minute connection might seem risky (at least by today’s Amtrak standards which require at least an hour), but No. 117 was carrying a Kansas City-Hot Springs Pullman which was also switched from one train to the other at Little Rock during that short period, so the expectation was that No. 117 would indeed arrive on time.

Bill

PS – Train 17 was the Hot Springs Special, St. Louis to Hot Springs, one of the “hotter” trains on the railroad in the days prior to the Eagles.

[Bill Pollard]

In 1933, several options were available, most were not particularly useful and no really direct rail service.
(1) Midland Valley #2 (motor car), Lv Tulsa 4:00pm, Av Ft Smith 1010pm. MP #117 Lv Ft Smith 304am, arrive Little Rock 805am

(2)MKT #221 Lv Tulsa 545pm, av Muskogee 715pm. MKT #7 Lv Muskogee 1am, av McAlester 235am, no connection on RI until 823pm next evening.

(3) drive from Tulsa to Claremore (33 miles), MP #115 Lv Claremore 638am, av Little Rock 250pm or MP #117 Lv Claremore 1215am, av LR 805am.

(4) multiple schedules, Santa Fe Trailways (bus) Tulsa to Fort Smith (about 4.5 hours) and multiple connecting schedules Missouri Pacific Trailways Fort Smith to Little Rock.

Hope that helps,

Bill Pollard

[Bill Pollard]

Here are a few other museum suggestions along the way (depending on your route to Austin).

Museum of the American Railroad – Frisco TX (has former MP slumbercoach and numerous other streamlined and heavyweight passenger cars) http://www.museumoftheamericanrailroad.org/

T&P Museum – Marshall TX (in former T&P depot) https://www.facebook.com/Marshall.Depot/ and http://marshalltxdepot.com/

Mineola TX Historical Museum (many T&P related exhibits in this former T&P crew change point. Also check out the restored T&P depot, which has a small rail museum and is also the Amtrak station.) https://mineolahistoricalmuseum.com/

Temple TX Rail and Heritage Museum (in former ATSF depot, with some preserved rolling stock) http://www.templerrhm.org/

New Braunfels Railroad Museum (in former IGN station) http://newbraunfelsrailroadmuseum.org/nbrr/

Rockdale TX I&GN Depot Museum https://www.rockdaledepot.com/depot.html

Bullock Texas History Museum in Austin – fun for the family if you are looking for a non-rail alternative https://www.thestoryoftexas.com/

For anyone going to Fredericksburg, US 290 west from Austin is the more direct route. Just west of Austin on 290, a number of passenger cars and several old depots have been relocated to the north side of the highway. The Texas Zephyr round-end observation car is most prominent. This is all private property, but has been redeveloped for commercial use (shops, etc.) and I’ve never had any problem stopping to take photographs.
http://www.texascompound.com/read-me-avenue/

Bill Pollard

PS – If you have any interest in World War II, the Pacific War Museum in Fredericksburg, mentioned by Charlie, is highly recommended. Fredericksburg also has shopping and restaurants along the main street which make it a nice family destination for those who haven’t succumbed to exclusive rail interests.

[Bill Pollard]

That was my experience on other railroads also… stairway to the rear which meant short end of the car forward. Its a little irritating that a $100 car has the seating backward. Of course, its no doubt possible to dissect the car and rearrange things, but at that price, it shouldn’t be necessary.

Bill

[Bill Pollard]

Early Gulf Coast Lines dining car service is a challenge to today’s railroad historian. The June 1916 Official Guide Gulf Coast Lines entry does not mention cafe-observation cars on trains 3-4 between New Orleans and Houston. However, the GCL undated timetable (but with notice advising change of New Orleans station effective June 1, 1916), does list cafe-observation cars on trains 3-4, with the notation that dining service is under the direction of Hotel Grunewald Catering Department. The Nov 1917 Official Guide entry similarly mentions Grunewald Catering. The January 1920 Official Guide, with the railroad now under USRA control, still shows cafe-observation cars but does not indicate whether food service was being handled by the railroad or under outside contract. The 1923 Guide likewise continues to show cafe-obs cars but does not indicate any catering arrangements or whether cars were being staffed by the railroad.

[attachment=0:1ccrder1]0896.pdf[/attachment:1ccrder1]

For those unfamiliar, the Hotel Grunewald was built in 1893, owned by Louis Grunewald, a German immigrant. After various expansions, the hotel was purchased by a group of New Orleans investors and renamed the Roosevelt Hotel in 1923.

[attachment=2:1ccrder1]1.jpg[/attachment:1ccrder1]

[attachment=1:1ccrder1]a3.jpg[/attachment:1ccrder1]

There is some speculation that this Hotel Grunewald Catering china was the original china used on the GCL cafe-observation cars when the cafe service first opened, with the Gulf Coast Lines china coming later, perhaps during or after the period of USRA operation.

Bill Pollard

[Bill Pollard]

Years ago, MP Little Rock restaurant operator Wylie Cavin (himself a former MP dining car inspector) had a large collection of this silver. Markings that he had included “MISSOURI PACIFIC”, “I.& G.N.” and “MO. PAC. & IRON MOUNTAIN.” I have heard that the pattern also came marked for T&P Ry, but I’ve never actually seen that variation so cannot confirm with certainty that it exists.

This “pagoda style” pattern probably existed for all standard shapes, but is known for certain to exist in the following shapes:

3 oz sauce boat
6 oz creamer with lid
6 oz and 9 oz sugarbowl with lid
8 oz and 10 oz teapot
12 oz soup terrine
butter dish with ice compartment
scalloped mint (?) dish

Bill Pollard

[Bill Pollard]

Charlie,
I had a crank on each of my M9 motorcars, but we almost NEVER started them with a crank. If they backfired, it could break your arm if you lost your grip on the crank, or so I was told. We always push started the car.

The photos of Mopac M9 C-6364 were taken on April 22, 1989 on the Clarksville AR branch, possibly the last run of a “rail” vehicle over the line. This line had been officially abandoned in late 1988, and a rail had been pulled at Clarksville Junction in January 1989, effectively isolating the 8.1 mile line and precluding any train movement over the line. A group bid on the line with a proposal to continue freight operation and a tourist train, but an out of state scrapper had a higher bid and was awarded the contract to remove the line. Scrapping operations began in May 1989.

Bill Pollard

[attachment=2:24r3pw4c]Clarksville-4-22-1989_0001-WL.jpg[/attachment:24r3pw4c]

[attachment=1:24r3pw4c]Clarksville-4-22-1989_0002-WL.jpg[/attachment:24r3pw4c]

[attachment=0:24r3pw4c]Clarksville-4-22-1989_0003-WL.jpg[/attachment:24r3pw4c]

[Bill Pollard]

Looks like a MT-19, the Onan powered version of the M-19. Nice motor car, but really too heavy for one man handling. Are you planning to restore it for operation or static display? Of course, the purists among us would argue that any “true” motorcar should have a single cylinder Fairmont engine. Comparing a Fairmont engine to an Onan is like comparing a steam locomotive to a Volkswagen beetle; one is temperamental as hell, requires the operator to be constantly listening to the engine exhaust to adjust the timer to the speed, etc., while the other is “just an engine”.

In 1991, when I was in the midst of motor car restorations myself, I condensed notes from several Missouri Pacific circa 1946 track motor car files which had previously been preserved by “dumpster diving” at Little Rock Union Station. The digital file seems to have disappeared over the years, but a hard copy remains – dot matrix printer, no less. A PDF file of that document is attached.

Despite my tongue in cheek discussion of Onan power, I may have a Fairmont maintenance book for a MT-19. If you need a copy, let me know.

Bill Pollard

[attachment=0:3k42otdw]MP-Motorcar-Trivia-1946.pdf[/attachment:3k42otdw]

[Bill Pollard]

Some of the Spadra mines were open into the early 1960s. I visited the depot there shortly before it was razed about 1965, and the coal loading facilities were still present.

[Bill Pollard]

The published information (which is on line) is only a small fraction of the entire valuation file. To my knowledge, there are no valuation maps on line, and likewise no on line listing for equipment inventory, etc. To retrieve the maps when visiting the National Archives, you need to know the valuation section itself. It would be a worthwhile project for MPHS to compile the valuation section lists for each state. The Arkansas valuation sections are listed below as an example of the numbering format.

Arkansas valuation sections for Missouri Pacific (similar numbering systems exist for each MP served state)

1AB-Arkansas Ark-Mo line (Corning) to Texarkana
2AB-Arkansas Knobel-Wynne-Helena-McGehee
3A-Arkansas Bald Knob-West Memphis
4-Arkansas West Memphis-Helena-Marianna
5AB-Arkansas Helena-Clarendon and Pine City Junction to Brinkley
6ABC-Arkansas Diaz to Cricket and Cushman branch
7ABC-Arkansas North Little Rock-Van Buren
7D-Arkansas Little Rock area ???
8AB-Arkansas Fort Smith-Greenwood
8C-Arkansas Fort Smith-Paris (Arkansas Central)
9AB-Arkansas Little Rock-Pine Bluff-McGehee-Wilmot
10ABC-Arkansas Arkla-Eudora; Trippe Jct.-Arkansas City
11-Arkansas Baxter-Colliers
12-Arkansas Thebes-Montrose-Hamburg-Snyder-Crossett
13ABC-Arkansas Hardin-Prague-Benton-Hot Springs
14ABC-Arkansas Gurdon-Burtsell-Okolona-Caddo Gap-Womble
15ABC-Arkansas Gurdon-Reader-El Dorado-Felsenthal-Huttig
16-Arkansas Hope-Nashville
20A-Arkansas Barham-Military Junction
20B-Arkansas Camp Pike (North Little Rock)
24-Arkansas Hot Springs (former MD&G trackage, structures purchased 1928)

The published text of the MP valuation was indeed Valuation Docket 1006, Volume 40V page 249. This was after the Valuation Dockets began to be published in a separate valuation series, rather than in the ICC Reports number series. Valuation volumes starting with the 22nd one were split out into this separate series. The Valuation series, including volume 40, can be found at https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/003919131?type%5B%5D=subject&lookfor%5B%5D=%22%20Railroads%20Valuation%22&ft=

Bill Pollard

[Bill Pollard]

Two photos of MP passenger (motor) trains at Topeka, from the collection of Tony Fey. The first photo was taken by William Gipson Sr, train 642, in the winter of 1927-1928. The second photo was taken by Ray Hilner, also train 642, on May 13,1934. The short RPO-baggage car behind the gas-electric carried the Topeka & Fort Scott RPO.

[attachment=0:19cthver]MP-TR#642-Topeka-5-1934-Ray-Hilner.jpg[/attachment:19cthver]

[attachment=1:19cthver]MP-TR#642-at-Topeka-1927-28-Wm-Gibson-Sr.jpg[/attachment:19cthver]

[Bill Pollard]

Railway Post Office service began as the Topeka & Fort Scott RPO on February 10, 1887. From June 16, 1892 – January 14, 1893, the route was briefly extended as the Topeka & Coffeyville RPO before being restored to its previous Fort Scott end terminal. From July 25, 1904 – April 30, 1905 the run was extended as the Topeka & Carthage RPO before again being cut back to Fort Scott. The last run of the Topeka & Fort Scott RPO was May 19, 1934.

Data from RPO Routes by State and Railroad, published by the Mobile Post Office Society.

Bill Pollard

[Author]

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